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Thanks!
posted by
arGee
on September 12, 2003 at 11:30 PM
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I am with you, Argee
The Bush Administration's Pre-emption Doctrine is the best thing that ever happened to American foriegn policy. If people like DamonLeigh had their way in WWII, Japan, Germany and Russia would have taken over most of the rest of the world. DL, do you think they would have left us alone for very long? I can't believe that you implied that we should have stayed out of WWII. Why are you so dead-set against violence, even when it is justified? Please set aside your distrust of conservatives, to see that you and your freedom ARE BEING PROTECTED. Or do you want to go sing "Give Peace a Chance" to Usama Bin Laden? If you do, GOOD LUCK!!
posted by
GoldenMean
on September 12, 2003 at 11:01 PM
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The agressor?
Let's see if I understand this: A group of people threatens to kill us and backs up their threats with actions. Their undertaking is sponsored by other people who are on the brink of being able to threaten the entire world. We presume to take them out BEFORE they can carry out their threats, and we are the agressor?
I don't think so!
Just be glad that people who think like I do are willing to do what is necessary so people like you can think your silly thoughts and carry your silly signs. Try protesting in former Iraq or present-day Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Sheesh...!
posted by
arGee
on September 11, 2003 at 9:47 AM
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AND you can spell it!!
posted by
Mike_Manc
on September 11, 2003 at 9:07 AM
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Scoop -at least somebody does some rersearch
posted by
Mike_Manc
on September 11, 2003 at 9:06 AM
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I have been checking
and the letter is signed by a Senior Art Messer, 22 Naval Construction Regiment, Task Force Charlie U.S. Navy Seabees.
From what I can find out Task Force Charlie is in Camp Moreell Kuwait and Task Force Charlie comprises Seabees from several Construction commands; the NMCB-5 from Port Hueneme, Calif., NMCBs-74 and 133 from Gulfport Miss., and Reserve NMCB-21 Lakehurst N.J., Naval Construciton Support Unit 2 from Port Hueneme, and Construction Batt. Maintenance 303 from San Diego..............Sorry can't find 22 Naval construction Regiment. I love to do research and it would be great if this was true, but after serving 26 years in law enforcement I am skeptical of letters like this.
posted by
scoop
on September 11, 2003 at 9:02 AM
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The Poignancy...
...of the letter isn't changed if it turns out to be a work of fiction pretending to be fact???? It does for me. And didn't it occur to you to check out your sources beforehand?
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 11, 2003 at 8:44 AM
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Ah, Yes....
...perspective. WWII was the one where America stayed the fuck out the way for the first half, until the Japanese forced their hand. Isn't that right?
Also, you'll recall that, in WWII, Germany was the agressor. In GWII, America (with UK in tow) is the agressor. Kinda changes things somewhat, dontchathink?
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 11, 2003 at 8:42 AM
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It isn't always straight forward
We are checking on whether the writer really is part of the claimed unit, and whether that unit is where he says it is. That, along with the email trail, should be sufficient. When we get the answer, I will post it here.
In the meantime, none of this changes the poignancy of the letter.
posted by
arGee
on September 11, 2003 at 8:40 AM
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Well you might start the paper trail with who sent it to you.
Which I thought was the author. Of-course on re-reading your introduction I can take it that it wasn't?
posted by
Mike_Manc
on September 11, 2003 at 8:37 AM
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We are checking out the authenticity...
At DefenseWatch we are checking out the authenticity of the letter I posted, not because of comments here, but as our normal routine. If it proves authentic (as I suspect it will) we will post it on DefenseWatch. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with looking at the entire picture in Iraq, and not just the things that are going wrong.
I grew up as the son of missionaries in post World War II Germany. It took years to get that country back on its feet. The Marshall Plan that footed most of the reconstruction bill cost the U.S. taxpayer MUCH more than Iraq will cost us. It is good to keep things in perspective.
posted by
arGee
on September 11, 2003 at 8:28 AM
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Nice One, Scoop!
This gets worse and worse 
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 11, 2003 at 8:13 AM
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I checked the internet on the letter
you posted, it has been circulating for a while and can't be proven to be real or not. Truth or Fiction website also did a piece on it. It seems there is some question also about the railroad not running since 1991 and if the writer is "real' and if the 22 Naval Construction Reg. is in that area.
posted by
scoop
on September 11, 2003 at 7:49 AM
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Hmmm....
"some people simply refuse to accept any reality that conflicts with their preconceived notions"
Looked in a mirror lately?
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 11, 2003 at 6:51 AM
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I can see clearly now...
Part of what I write about in my post
I Can See Clearly Now is that some people simply refuse to accept any reality that conflicts with their preconceived notions. The DL posts present the clearest confirmation of what I wrote that I have seen recently. Thank you DL for demonstrating to the world how you people think.
posted by
arGee
on September 11, 2003 at 6:28 AM
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The Reason I Don't...
...click through to your description of 'people like me' is that, after the briefest of online dialogues, you can have not the slightest clue about 'people like me', and certainly not sufficient information to slot me into a convenient category that you've defined. As I said before, life (and people) is a little more complex than that.
Scoop, thanks for sharing your personal connections out there, and for bringing some balance to the debate. I've seen similar letters, as I mentioned, but these are not to me, but rather appear in various publications I see, such as Private Eye (UK). There's always more power in the personal.
Finally, I do attempt to respect all viewpoints. It is hard for me, however, to respect the one that supports a president that stole the election, sending troops into a country against international law, to combat a threat that turns out to be non-existant, and then keeping the troops there longer than they were first told, and a far higher cost than was initially estimated, whilst holding 600+ folk at Guantanamo Bay, from a previous excursion, completely outside of international law, without legal representation, for an indefinite period.
But I'll try.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 11, 2003 at 3:42 AM
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Yes but even Hackworth
who I read, writes that the situation is in trouble of going down the tubes. I respect your opinion and I have mine. The letter writer, that you site, seems to be a little to "out of reallity" to suit me and from the letters I receive.
posted by
scoop
on September 10, 2003 at 5:17 PM
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Doubters miss the point...
I did not resort to name calling. I simply described what I saw, and that was a genuinely stupid analysis of a perfectly sound and meaningful letter from a real person. I simply called it as I saw it.
The word "Senior" is part of the rank of this particular individual. In one sense he is relatively senior, in that he is a senior enlisted person. In the overall ranking of military people, however, he is still a worker bee, although one with significant qualifications in some specific area. In the enlisted rankings he is an E-8; the rankings extend from E-1 through E-9. The next set of rankings is Warrant Officer: W-1 through W-4. Then the Commissioned Officer rankings from O-1 through O-10. So, out of a total of 23 rankings, this gent is in 8th position. He is like a foreman at a factory; an important guy, but he does not run the show nor set policy, BUT the boss probably should listen to him from time to time. (This information is generally available over the Web.)
DefenseWatch is a high circulation online journal founded by David Hackworth, America's most decorated living soldier. Readership is about 1.5 million weekly. The only "agenda" DefenseWatch has is to ensure that the "grunt," the guy on the front line, gets a fair shake. Consequently, we tend to get "real" input from the troops, since we always tell it like it is, without deference to the brass or the administration. Check us out at www.sftt.org. (This stands for: Soldiers for the Truth.)
Just because you hear opposing points of view doesn't necessarily mean that the truth lies somewhere between. The truth is whatever it is, regardless of stated opinions. I freely admit that I hold strong personal opinions, BUT I have reached these opinions following exhaustive analysis of as much data as possible--from all perspectives. I will happily hold court with anyone who genuinely wants to discuss these matters, but I will not under any circumstances allow myself to be drawn into the kind of discussion that always seem to take place when one of the participants is a person like I describe in I Can See Clearly Now.
posted by
arGee
on September 10, 2003 at 5:06 PM
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The letter is garbage
I have a son over there and kids that I coached in baseball, I don't where in Disneyland this guy wrote the letter from but it is crap, I was a Marine in Vietnam and I know what war is. You know the liberal media would show you all the good stuff if they could but there isn't any. These kids who write to me tell it like it is. Another soldier was killed today another wounded. Woundings have tripled. If it is so wonderful why can't we get help from other countries, why do we have to use our reserves and then up their time to a year or more? What people should see are the guys coming back being fitted with artificial arms and legs. Oh it is a goddam picnic over there.
posted by
scoop
on September 10, 2003 at 12:59 PM
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Interesting comments here.
Personally, I'm a skeptical person, and yes, the letter is quite inspirational, and I would like to believe it. It probably is true, in isolated encounters, but though it provides facts, it also generalizes to a great degree. The US military clearly has an agenda, since its commander in chief has an agenda, and as perception is reality, public relations is all important. I would be interested in reading the opposing viewpoints, of which there are many, as the truth will likely be something in between.
posted by
theelbster
on September 10, 2003 at 12:53 PM
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I've Always Believed...
...that the faster someone leaps to name-calling and insults in a discussion, the thinner their arguement. I think you've just proved this belief to be right.
The military has an agenda. The military works by being highly disciplined, and singing from the same songbook. Even if this guy is not senior (despite the word 'senior' appearing in his sig lines) he is likely to be presenting the picture that fits with the agenda of his organisation. What I find really compelling are the guys who write from the front to home publications saying what a dreadful mistake this little adventure is.
Let me just make one thing clear. The fighting men and women in Iraq are there because their political masters have sent them there, against international law. They are pawns in a political agenda (plus ca change) and are most certainly not fighting for me, for my freedom, or for anything else remotely connected with me. Except perhaps the oil I use in ten years time. No one has presented a credible arguement that Iraq was a threat to the West. Non of the 9/11 guys were Iraqi. Saddam stood for an ideology diametrically opposed to al-Qaeda. And the WMD myth has clearly been debunked now. He wasn't a nice man, of course, and he was a tyrant, but there are lots of those to choose from. So don't come to me with the "you don't understand what is happening in the world" bollocks. I'm just not swallowing the bullshit.
As Mike mentions, I'm not sure how you can accurately comment on what people "the world over" thinks of the BBC. They're far from perfect, I know, but you might like to check out with your sources how "the world" views Fox and CNN. Fox who declared Bush president before the final counts were in. And CNN who were caught inventing death-&-mayhem incidents in the Balkans when nothing was actually happening.
What YOU don't understand is that the world is a complex place, not at all black-and-white, for-us-or-against-us, and that other viewpoints are equally valid to your own.
D
PS Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mike! 
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 10, 2003 at 12:45 PM
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Actually he's not a jerk you know.
But I think I know who is.
You present a factual piece without any balance whatsoever. What the fuck is that all about? Are you afraid to present an alternative argument then disprove it? This age old method can, in the right hands, provide arguments far more compelling than this claptrap. Who is this guy? Where is he? How do we KNOW it was unsolicited? What is Defense Watch? What is it's agenda? What was the context in which he was writing? In short how do we know as readers that it is representative of the situation in Iraq? To trash the BBC is ridiculous and on what do you base your comments?
Sorry but I have different views from you and with this you have no chance of affecting my opinion.
posted by
Mike_Manc
on September 10, 2003 at 11:39 AM
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You're a real Jerk, DL...
This letter was NOT from a senior guy, but from a guy in the ranks. Furthermore, noone asked him to write it, and he didn't write it for publication. As far as the BBC presenting anything credible, it has become well known the world over that these guys will distort and lie to further their agenda. Idiots like you will never understand what is happening in the worlkd, and will never understand the sacrifice made by our fighting men and women in order to selcure YOUR freedom to express yourself--even in this stupid manner. Check out this post for a description of what your problem really is.
There is a cure for ignorance, but stupid is forever...
posted by
arGee
on September 10, 2003 at 10:56 AM
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An Interesting Piece...
...of classically short-sighted propaganda.
Of course any senior military bod is going to say all is well. That's what he's paid to say! Duh.
Of course people say they want McDonalds, because it's sold hard. They don't want the obesity, food poisoning and heart disease that invariably follows the golden arches into new lands, but luckily, no one has told them about that yet.
This 98% of happy Iraqis is being quoted here in the UK, too, but the BBC questioned it only this morning, with a reporter on the ground finding it difficult to find ONE PERSON in favour of coalition forces sticking around.
The nastiest piece of this letter, though, has to be 'hunting them down like animals'. Nothing's really changed since you were hunting down the First Nation peoples a few hundred years ago, huh? You must be so proud of the progress you've made.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on September 10, 2003 at 6:12 AM
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That lifted my spirits considerably. What a contrast to the crap the liberal media is feeding us on TV. All I can say is, vote for Bush next year. He, and he alone, made this possible. For all his faults, he deserves another 4 years.
posted by
GoldenMean
on September 10, 2003 at 12:14 AM
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Hey, guys...
I can't take credit for this post. The writer sent this information to me. But your comments are on point. Stay tuned...there's a lot more where this came from!
posted by
arGee
on September 8, 2003 at 1:31 PM
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Poignant Letter
What an inspiring letter! It makes me also realize that we as Americans take a lot for granted.
posted by
Sherri_G
on September 8, 2003 at 12:44 PM
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What a wonderful letter! The writer illustrates
so well what many do not understand.... that America and our way of life... even down to having a McDonalds on one corner and a Pizza Hut on the other... represents so much more than mere freedom... it represents hope.
G'dang!!! Crabby's got to stop reading yer g'dang blogs..... yer making her sound like her creeped out brainiac of a Creator...hack... gag... spit!!!!
posted by
Crabby
on September 8, 2003 at 12:19 PM
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