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That's fine, Xenox, but most faithful Christians see the
cross as a memorial to the death and resurrection of Christ. When I look at the cross of Christ, I remember his sacrifice. I don't stop and ponder some pagan ritual. As well, I believe the cross is used in memorials to remember the sacrifice of the soldiers who died.
That's not so hard to understand, is it?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 5, 2006 at 6:55 PM
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a quote
"
The cross of Christianity was a later symbol of the faith, replacing the lamb, fish, alpha/omega, and phoenix as emblems. It was previously considered a pagan symbol, with several early church fathers objecting to its use."
click here for the source
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 4, 2006 at 10:34 PM
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Janes
So you are saying that in this free country it is fine to insult the minority of families of those who have lost loved ones in defense of this country just because they do not follow the religion of the majority? How insulting can you get? You are saying that is someone lost their lives and were not Christian, then that sacrifice is meaningless.
Any memorial that is truly dedicated to the soldiers who have fought and died for this country should have NO religious links to it in the least. Unless you wish to make people's sacrifices meaningless by making a memorial to them that DOES NOT reflect the true ideas they died for.
And even 50 years ago, there was less than 95% of the population who were Christian. I highly doubt there has even been such a high amount in the population of this country.
I know that you do not understand, nor do you respect religious freedom, but this is truly an insult to so many who have given their lives for this country. Also, remember this was not originally a memorial as it is. That was a legal game being played the religious right. It was built originally as just a religious symbol on public land. It just recently became a war memorial to attempt to get around having to move the thing.
Also, no one is saying it has to be destroyed, just removed from public land onto private land. Why is that such a big deal? Do Christians have so little respect for those who do not share their beliefs?
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 3, 2006 at 4:43 PM
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Kooka and Xenox, perhaps we should poll the families
of the men who died (and are represented by that Cross). Find out exactly how many of them thought of themselves as Christian. I would venture to guess that, 50 years ago, it was upwards of 95%. As Gomedome mentioned in a comment on Xenox's post, the religious views of the people AT THE TIME THAT CROSS WAS BUILT should be respected.
Hello, please be reasonable.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 2, 2006 at 9:34 AM
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Also, Janes and everyone else
Because this is a free country, Majority does not rule when it takes away from the rights of ANYONE. If 75% of the population was to suddenly vote for all women to legally be the property of men that would be overruled ratehr quickly since it violates someone's rights and so it does not matter if the majority is for it or not.
That is the basic idea of what freedom is. Since this cross does violate a group of people's rights, no matter how small that group may be, it is really something that should not be on public land. Individual graves are the proper site for religious emblems, since that is a personal memorial to the person, not to the whole of everyone who has died for this country.
I really wish the fundamentalists understood what freedom is and how it works.
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 1, 2006 at 3:26 PM
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I am just so glad to see that the ACLU
Is showing such respect for all the men and women who have died for this country by making sure that hey have died for freedom and not so that someone group can push their religious beliefs on others. After all I can promise you that a fair amount of those who have died fighting for the U.S.A. were not Christian, but were of other faiths and would find it somewhat offensive to have such a monument erected that was suppose to be for them.
Sorry, but the deaths of our people should not be used by any church as a religious tool to force their beliefs on others and by putting that cross up that is 100% what is happening.
And it is a great insult to anyone and everyone who has died for this country, unless you really do not believe in religious freedom.
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 1, 2006 at 3:17 PM
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Lensman, thanks for being a strong voice of sanity in the midst of
significant INSANITY!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 30, 2006 at 10:51 AM
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xenox your comment is so danged assinine it's ridiculous.
Haven't you heard of majority rule? What's the percentage of Hindus and Muslims living in that area?
It's OK for school kids to be required to chant Kwanzaa holiday phrases, but not OK for them to sing a Christmas song -- same principal bozo.
You have some really screwed up ideology xenox.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 30, 2006 at 10:50 AM
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PS:
I'm assuming that the court of appeal decision was based on a majority vote. Interesting.
posted by
Lensman
on June 30, 2006 at 6:59 AM
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If 75 percent....
...voted to retain it, that's good enough for me. What happened to the concept of majority rule? Only suitable when it's convenient to certain agendas?
It makes more sense to me (and is more inclusive) to find a way to add other symbols rather than to eliminate this symbol. Of course, there are those out there for whom the cross is like a red rag to a bull.
posted by
Lensman
on June 30, 2006 at 6:55 AM
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so Jews love to have the cross there?
Moslems?
Hindus?
yesseree bob it was only Christians who went to war wasn't it?
looking at that cross, i can see where it does not represent a memorial to the dead as much as it does represent a religion at the exclusion of others.
i want it off of public lands too.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 30, 2006 at 6:43 AM
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Thanks Justi, and I will have to check out your post on the 9th circuit.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 25, 2006 at 9:27 PM
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Excellent comment, Gomedome, thank you.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 25, 2006 at 9:27 PM
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JanesOpinion - this is a first - I agree with your post 100%
. . and that was a particularly good use of a quote by a very articulate person. "Do the liberals want to go there?" as a closing line was particularly effective. Political partanship aside, no one should go "there". The only persons that could possibly raise any form of legitimate protest to this use of a religious symbol would be the families of the deceased. This is a commemoration intended to pay respect to some young men of another generation. How dare anyone think of their own modern day religious sensibilities out of historical context. Give the respect where it is do and give the protesting atheist the slap on the head he deserves for this attrocity.
posted by
gomedome
on June 24, 2006 at 6:01 PM
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Janes
I have been livid about this. I wrote on it yesterday and had some really good comments. I don't think everybody knows how very evil that 9th circuit court of appeals is...... Very good article.
posted by
Justi
on June 24, 2006 at 4:09 PM
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