Go to Court Of The One-Eyed Judge
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- Go to A Moussaoui Decision!! or What The Hell Took Those Morons So Long?
We must bear in mind that sometimes there are judicial errors
posted by
adventurer02
on February 17, 2016 at 3:11 AM
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You go on for days, blogflogger. I'll gladly listen. And I don't mind
switch-hitting on the occasional issue (some things bear gradation scaling). It helps balance the primal with the evolved (or so-called).
posted by
saul_relative
on April 5, 2006 at 11:11 PM
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Saul – That’s my point. Martyrdom would come with death.
Incarceration would be interpreted simply as unjust. – Go on for days? I do everything except go off on telephone solicitors. I spout my opinions to at the ‘drop of a hat’. – I think your concern about a prisoner incarcerated for life escaping might be a bit of a stretch. I just can’t justify killing anyone as punishment for being bad. You can be the switch-hitter on this one.
posted by
blogflogger
on April 5, 2006 at 10:58 PM
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No doubt about it, blogflogger. Martyrdom is assured for Moussaoui,
especially if we execute him. Every moron who has strapped on a bomb and walked onto a bus or into a restaurant (or masterminded a mass killing, for that matter) has become Islamic heroes in the eyes of Muslims all over the world. You could go for days? So could I (and have, in countless posts and rants at my house -- my fiance has learned to tune me out).
As for killing for visceral satisfaction: Unfortunately, the rise of the animal isn't rational. But you do not guarantee the end of certain behaviors by life imprisonment (there is always the chance of escape). Only death guarantees the end of that individual's terrible actions. Does that make capital punishment any more palatable or less objectionable, ethically or morally correct? No. This is one issue that I do not have a problem going either way on.
posted by
saul_relative
on April 5, 2006 at 9:53 PM
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saul_relative - In Islamic tradition, martyrdom means dying in a way ...
... deserving of paradise. "There's absolutely no doubt that executing him would turn him [Moussaoui] into a martyr," said Bruce Hoffman, who has studied terrorism at the Rand Corp. for 25 years.
posted by
blogflogger
on April 5, 2006 at 1:07 PM
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saul_relative - If the sentence is life without the possibility of parole..
... we ensure the “cretins” will never again be free to harm anyone outside of the prison walls. – Killing is wrong, so we kill to prove to killers that killing is wrong. ?? We kill for the visceral satisfaction of knowing we killed them?
Denials by the administration: unfortunately many in the US seem to believe them, but the international community does not. We lock up prisoners at GITMO and secret prisons, refuse to charge them or even release their names, then posture as human rights activists. ???
The current administrations actions have made the US a target of world-wide disdain, increased the retaliatory actions of terrorists, and furthered the recruitment of terrorists organizations world-wide. – Our bullying tactics in Iraq (unilateral preemptive action) BROUGHT the terrorists to Iraq, and helped them recruit new members. (I could go on for days but will spare you.)
We have become the ‘do as I say not as I do’ nation. Such arrogance!
posted by
blogflogger
on April 5, 2006 at 10:05 AM
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I am torn on this, blogflogger. Allow me to explain.
I am pro capital punishment, especially when it comes to jerk-offs like Moussaoui, traitors like McVeigh, and recidivist animals like Bundy, Dahmer, and the BTK killer. And I know that capital punishment does absolutely nothing to deter the commission of more of these heinous crimes, but it is the ultimate deterrent for these cretins to ever commit another.
As for the international aspect of it, you are absolutely right. And, despite my personal feelings for dealing with those subhmumans among us, I realize the necessity of international diplomatic dialogue. Giving up the death penalty, outlawing capital punishment, would be a small concession to gain multilateral diplomacy. All your other points are equally valid. I would add one: That the World Court charge the United States with human rights violations, expose the Bush administration for what they've done to our once good human rights record. Exposition may go a long way toward ending it. As it stands, denials by the administration have been enough to keep the public in denial.
posted by
saul_relative
on April 4, 2006 at 8:32 PM
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saul_relative - Volitivity it is. I love our new word.
posted by
blogflogger
on April 4, 2006 at 11:58 AM
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Saul - I agree with almost all of your points.
I agree with appropriate punishment for those involved in Abu Ghraib.
I want Guantanamo shut down and prisoners kept on the continental US.
I want all prisoners to have the right to challenge their accusers and be allowed a legal defense.
I want secret prisons in Eastern Europe to be unlawful and prisoners brought to the US.
I want an investigation as to whether the current administration intentionally lied / led us astray in gaining approval to invade Iraq.
I want us to outlaw capital punishment. Its barbaric, and we’re the only first world country still practicing it. If we would rule out capital punishment in the country we would receive more cooperation from the rest of the world, i.e., they won’t allow extradition to a country who may kill extradited prisoners. I don’t care about the animals who want to see blood to satisfy them.
If the US behaves in a manner that the rest of the world will endorse, we will receive more backing, and a greater intolerance for terrorist actions by the international community.
posted by
blogflogger
on April 4, 2006 at 11:55 AM
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That 'volativity' thing, maybe we can use. Volatility is a state of being
fleeting, ephemeral, varying widely, inconstant. Volativity can be the comparative actions being discussed, say, pro-death penalty to anti-death penalty. For example: The volativity of the issue varies from quiet petitioning for life imprisonment to the vocal picketers shouting, "No more executions." Conversely, it varies from the angry media campaigns for death by friends and family to the steady and deliberate legal maneuverings to commute sentencing. Blogflogger, I think you may have coined a term.
posted by
saul_relative
on April 4, 2006 at 11:38 AM
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No, blogflogger, it probably will not help our international reputation any
(not that it can really be hurt at this point -- Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, "extraordinary renditioning", the entire Iraq War fiasco), but it will quell the Romans. And it doesn't matter what you do to Moussaoui, he becomes a martyr to Islamists either way: imprisoned, he becomes a wrongfully suffering and persecuted follower of Mohammed; executed, he becomes a hero and unjustly murdered jihadist. You can't win, so appease the Romans, then work on that terrible international image by closing Guantanamo (as a detainee camp, at least), stopping the "renditioning", court-martialing and imprisoning every damn person responsible for atrocities like Abu Ghraib, and that includes anyone with birds or stars on their collars. Unfortunately, blogflogger, we are not a nation of forgivers, regardless of our Christian teachings.
posted by
saul_relative
on April 4, 2006 at 11:27 AM
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Thanks, scoop.
posted by
saul_relative
on April 4, 2006 at 11:19 AM
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Oops. Should have read "volatility".
posted by
blogflogger
on April 4, 2006 at 8:02 AM
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saul_relative - With the volativity in the international community, and...
... the negative way the US is perceived by much of the world, don't you think putting him to death will only further inflame terrorists as well as the world of Islam in general? Is it worth that "eye for an eye" satisfaction to make the political environment even more volatile and dangerous?
posted by
blogflogger
on April 4, 2006 at 8:01 AM
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Amen couldn't have said it any better
posted by
scoop
on April 4, 2006 at 7:16 AM
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