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Taps, I have been spending more time lately trying to study
and ponder Biblical prophecy. I find it amazing!!!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 15, 2006 at 5:27 PM
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My dear offbeats, thank you for asking!
I guess I've just been busy, but I'm off tomorrow and will attempt to post then.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 15, 2006 at 5:27 PM
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JanesOpinion
Interesting post. It is good to ponder on these things in light of the times in which we live.
posted by
TAPS.
on February 15, 2006 at 1:58 PM
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Janes
Stopping by to say hello and hope you had a nice Valentines Day. Where are you???
posted by
Offy
on February 14, 2006 at 6:18 PM
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Xenox, I'm guessing there are far more Jews than that.
Thanks to the Diaspora, there are probably tons of people who are 1/4 Jewish (or less), may not be aware of their heritage, etc. However, I guess 1/4 is the magic number, at least it was for Hitler and his slaughter house.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 14, 2006 at 4:42 PM
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in the time of Jesus
there were basically the Jews (from the return from Babylon [not the northern kingdom enmasse) and the Samaritans, who traced their lineage back to Abraham. There are still Samaritans today, and their religion closely resembles that of the Jews.
Arabs are descended from Ishmael. And they do proclaim their descendancy from Abraham very loudly.
As to the number of Jews in the world today?
as to how many Jews there are worldwide?:
Judaism: 14 million
in the U.S.
3,995,371
I'm certain that this is more than existed in the time of Jesus.
but is it enough?
Moslems number more than a billion.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 14, 2006 at 7:06 AM
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Kooka, you can run the DNA through theBible without science and
it was run long before you could find that.
posted by
Justi
on February 13, 2006 at 9:27 PM
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Xeno no this is not the tracing of the return, but you are going in
that direction.
posted by
Justi
on February 13, 2006 at 9:25 PM
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Kooka you've got me there! I do believe that all of the Bible is true, BUT at the same time, to better understand the Bible one has to get into the Jewish mindset. As one Christian theologian/historian (who has spent years studying with Rabbis) has said, it is very helpful, when studying the Bible and/or Jewish history, to realize that the Jews of the OT and NT were very practical and often spoke in pictures or parables, using examples that the people would be very familiar with during that time. Which is why the full meaning of some of Jesus' parables can be a challenge to understand today but were very clear to the people back then -- because Jesus used the lingo and examples and "visuals" of that day.
So yes, I do believe that all of the Bible is the inspired word of God and is 100% believable; however, that said, I also know that to better understand the Bible, I need to understand the word pictures God used as examples -- that were very clear to the people back then, but a little more challenging for us.
Good question, thanks for asking, I'm off to bed!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 6:57 PM
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Janes
So we are then not to take everything in the Bible literally? Now I am getting confused. I thought we were not allowed to look at any aspects of the Bible as being figurative.
Could the 'Seven' days be figurative as well? Or the whole idea of the book of Revelation? Or so many other stories in the Bible that if they were figurative they suddenly would make a whole lot more sense?
How do you know what to take literal and what to take figuratively?
Thank you for helping me build up to my point.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 13, 2006 at 6:41 PM
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Kooka, here's a quote I made from the comments below.
(ergo I don't necessarily agree with you!)
"In my humble opinion, I think the comment regarding the stars and grains of sand is a metaphor and/or the common Jewish use of speaking in pictures. They are/were (at least back then) very visual and used examples that people could relate to. So I think that here God meant that Abraham's descendents would be so many you could not count the number!"
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 6:34 PM
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Janes
If you keep up with modern medical science we are right now at a level where we can take a sample of your DNA and tell you where all you ancestors came from and follow the various paths across the world back to the original tribe of man. This is thanks to genetic changes that take place about every 20,000 and are leave genetic markers showing minor mutations. With these scientist can trace man back 150,000 to who they call the 'real eve'. Everyone one has one of the evolutionary maps in their DNA. So that is how they would be able to trace back and learn the fate of any known groups of people and what became of their descendants. They have found a few places where various tribes did dead end.
And I thank you for providing a very great case to show that we can not be any where near the end of the world. After all if God were to end the world now, then he would not be following through on his promise, since we have yet to come anywhere near that amount of people. So if you believe in the Bible and hold that God would stay true to his promise, then we are once more given yet more proof than we need not worry about the end being near.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 13, 2006 at 6:22 PM
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Thank you, Justsouno and Xenox, for your contributions.
Love those family trees!
And like I said in the post -- the promises of God are pretty awesome!!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 5:58 PM
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Good point, Xenox.
I recently read that there is an effort underway to determine, using DNA, the offspring of the the Levites. Supposedly there is something unique in their DNA. Amazing, eh?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 5:55 PM
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As always, Justsouno, thanks!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 5:54 PM
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Interesting comments, Omni, thanks for stopping!
In my humble opinion, I think the comment regarding the stars and grains of sand is a metaphor and/or the common Jewish use of speaking in pictures. They are/were (at least back then) very visual and used examples that people could relate to. So I think that here God meant that Abraham's descendents would be so many you could not count the number!
Cool, eh?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 5:54 PM
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family tree
abraham -- isaac and ishmael
isaac -- jacob and esau
jacob -- 12 triibes -- Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh), Benjamin, Reuben, Issachar (?), Judah and others.
return to the Holy Land -- upon Jeroboam ascending the throne, therewas the division, with Judah, and one tribe and the Levites in the Southern Kingdom, the Ephraim, Manassah, Benjamin, Reuben and some Levites in the Northern.
Assyria conquered the northernkingdom, leaving Judah et al, (the Jews) in the southern, which was conquered by Babylon, then the Jews were returned to the Holy Land upon conquest by the Persian Empire.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 13, 2006 at 2:58 PM
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Xeno-X you are partially right. Edomits are the sons of Esau and are
direct Jews not Arabs. All the Arabs except the Palestinians are the sons Ishmael and are the wild men tribes of the wild man. They are the sons of Abraham but not Jewish, God said only Isaac was the son of promise and he would be the leader of the Hebrews.
posted by
Justi
on February 13, 2006 at 2:46 PM
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Jane I heard others today complaining about people taking ugly
pot shots on a blot and others went to their rescue. Here is another dog fight just because there are dogs available and itching. These comments do not actually have anything to do with the post. The post is about promise. The Canaanites were enemies of God. I know my Bible and do not have a lot of patience for those who want to look up a spot and discourse on the whole scenario.
posted by
Justi
on February 13, 2006 at 2:41 PM
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children of abraham aren ot only jews
Edomites -- maybe Turkish -- all Arabs -- so looks like the sand on the seashore to me.
Ishmailites too.
and the Ten Lost Tribes -- where are they? -- not just Jews -- Jews to make up but a small number of Abraham's descendants.
and Abraham's descendants do inhabit the whole of the Holy Land today.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 13, 2006 at 2:40 PM
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Good post Janes. Omni many scholars believe Abraham left notes
He was from the Mesopotamia area. That was the cradle of civilization. They had a written alphabet at the time. It is not an opinion but an assurance that The Holy Spirit was the author through other's hands of the total Holy Bible and other Jewish writings. If you read it enough you can truly understand it cannot and will not be contaminated.
posted by
Justi
on February 13, 2006 at 2:36 PM
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Jane,
Great post. The thing about the promise that God made to Abraham is that the transcription of what he said is only as good as whoever first inscribed them in the OT. This was likely written after several generations of being told verbally by father to son to to son and so on. Then it was copied over by others and then translated into one language and then another - often not being translated from the original but from one of the translations. Sort of like the old game of "telephone" from when we were kids. (don't know if that game is still played or not).
I guess it sounds like I'm arguing against fundamentalism which really isn't my intent. What I'm trying to say is that while the spirit of what God promised was growth and longevity for the Jews - the words about the stars and the sand may not be exactly what he said. Keep in mind that to the average human of those days, the world and the sky seemed much smaller. The number of stars might not have seemed to be infinite.
As for the Jews surviving through the years despite all that has happened I once heard someone make a comment that it seems odd that this religion which has outlasted many (even after being nearly zeroed out a few times) is one of the only religions that does not put any effort into converting others to their faith.
posted by
Omni
on February 13, 2006 at 5:38 AM
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Dr, you sure about that?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 12, 2006 at 8:51 AM
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Good Post
posted by
Dr_JPT
on February 12, 2006 at 8:45 AM
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Ah ha, Gomedome, thanks for enlightening me on the # of stars.
But take your time counting the grains of sand. I wouldn't want the count to be off.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 11, 2006 at 9:35 PM
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JanesOpinion -- the best guess of how many stars are in the sky is a
number larger than 70 septillion (70,000 billion). This number includes only the stars that we can actually see via telescope and other means, or witness by associative phenomona. Suffice it to say however that there are substantially more stars than 10,000 times the Earth's populace. As for how many grains of sand there are, we're still counting, I'll have to get back to you on that one.
posted by
gomedome
on February 11, 2006 at 3:22 PM
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CC, did I say I was fearful of your accuracy?
Nope, deary, sorry. No fear there, because I too have read the OT and have a good understanding of its precepts.
Have a good day!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 11, 2006 at 12:32 PM
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Oh and also
please don't fear my accuracy or anything else for I'm not to be feared.
posted by
CrimsonCarouse
on February 11, 2006 at 12:24 PM
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Yes CC, I did reiterate your point; however,
I am also not one to second guess God and, although parts of the OT seem bloody and barbaric I am not one to second guess God's intentions. Instead, it is my desire to do what I can to better understand the methods God has used through the ages to work with his people.
I tend to have a loving respect for the God of the universe. God's ways are certainly not man's ways and will appear foolish and even hateful to those such as yourself who do not believe. (That comment was NOT a slam on your disbelief; rather, I was just making a statement.)
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 11, 2006 at 12:23 PM
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Thank you
for reiterating my point about God removing people from their land for someone elses use.
posted by
CrimsonCarouse
on February 11, 2006 at 12:17 PM
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Actually, CC
it was God's intent to remove those people from the land so they would not be a negative influence on his people, the Israelites; however, the Israelites disobeyed God and did not remove the Cannanites from the land. Instead, God's people, who were monotheistic, adapted many of the cultures and pantheistic religions of the Cannanites, and suffered as a result (and eventually lost the land).
(Your cynicism is affecting, I fear, your accuracy.)
As ever, thanks for commenting -- even though I complately disagree with your analysis.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 11, 2006 at 12:11 PM
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The Caaninites had their land stolen from them
by god to give to Moses and the Hebrews he led out of what is believed to be Egypt. I'd have to look up in Exodus what exactly it says but I believe they were destroyed by God. Apparently they committed the great sin of settling on land destined for someone else. Hey wait that sounds awfully familiar!
posted by
CrimsonCarouse
on February 11, 2006 at 12:06 PM
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