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Janes

Let's take a look at the some of the 'evidence' you presented to show I attack Christians.  Form what I remember one of them was my personal opinions about the show Veggie Tales and a song they had that to me said that kids shouldn't worry about strangers because God is 'bigger than the buggy man', which as a parent I felt to be a very misguided message.  Another was a political comment, not a religious one and yet another was actually a very positive comment about Christians.  And to find those which did not prove your point in the least, you had to look through several weeks worth of my posts, in order to prove that I am always attacking Christians.  The reason I was able to disprove ever single one of your examples was because none of them proved what you were claiming.

When have you ever presented any evidence outside of your beliefs and the Bible?  I really do not think I have seen any real evidence at all come from you.  Show me an example where I tell you your were wrong when you presented actual facts and/or real evidence to me.

And once more, here you are making the claim without providing nay evidence.  If I am really as bad as you claim I am, then it shouldn't take nay time at all for you to find this and prove me wrong.  Yet if you try you will not likely find all kinds of little things that prove nothing.  We've danced this dance and you failed then, and so now you just want to have an excuse to discredit me and cut me down.

If this has been done by me, then show me the examples.

Thankfully you have not done anything to the post and so I could get both side and I posted them here.  And anyone wanting to read her last attempt at discrediting me where the comments came from can just scroll down a few posts to find it.

posted by kooka_lives on February 7, 2006 at 7:34 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, this is such a waste of my time.

I have shown you quotes from your own work which you have completely discredited, reinterpreted, etc.  When I've made arguments about something and have attempted to prove something I have provided data from studies.  Every time you knock down anything I have to say as being biased or whatever.  No matter what I say, no matter the evidence I present, you bash it. 

And yet you have the gall to speak of integrity?  That's a big fat assed lie.

Excuse me while I go barf the bile out of my system.

posted by JanesOpinion on February 5, 2006 at 8:52 AM | link to this | reply

Janes

Thanks you for proving my point for me.  Once more you find some reason to back out of having to actually provide proof of your accusations.  I do not attack anyone.  If you wish to back up that claim and show me some evidence to prove that, I am willing to look at it.  But you will just look for some excuse not to.

It is clear you do not care about truth or facts and being honest.  Integrity is meaningless to you.  Instead you just wish to attack my character and discredit me.  I do tired of such childish antics.

Grow up.  Put your money where you mouth is and stop making such claims unless you can provide actual proof to back you up.  I know I do nothing at all that you claim I do and since you are unable to provide proof, then you show just how weak your claims are.  This is poor crap and is all based on your personal feelings and on nothing at all that can be proven.  Your preconceived notions are leading you blindly.

Of course most likely you will have some weak excuse this time to not back your claims up.  You don't have the time, it is not worth the effort and soon,  You for some reason need not show nay integrity at all since you are so far above me that you can attack at will and justify it.  Do not try to ever tell me you do not believe you have the moral high ground, making it so I have no right to question your integrity when you make such childish attacks against me.  If you did not believe that, then you would not believe you could make such accusations and not have to provide proof.

posted by kooka_lives on February 5, 2006 at 8:38 AM | link to this | reply

Sorry Kooka,

but I turned off reading when I came across the sentence that said "I do not attack Christianity. . . ."

Forget it, buddy.  You do attack.  I'm done here.

posted by JanesOpinion on February 4, 2006 at 8:53 PM | link to this | reply

Sorry Janes

But you can not be talking about me, since I very much do not fit into what you have said here.

I just wrote a post this last week about 'walking in other people's shoes' where I explain that I have walked in the 'shoes' of the Christian, which is one of the reasons I have such an understanding of the various faiths tired to Christianity.  I am actually very good at seeing things from other people's point of view, which is one reason why I am a great person for people to talk to.  I am actually great at figuring out where people are coming from, even if I have not lived what they have gone through.

You do this?  Not that I find about as unbelievable as it gets.  You have not once ever tried to understand my point of view.  You always right away attack and attempt to discredit me.  You refuse to look at the points I present or at the reasoning I have for my beliefs.  You very much are unable to accept the simple fact that I am unable to believe in God and that this is not a choice, but just me staying true to who I am.  If I raise a question to people, you only see it as an attack on your beliefs, even if it is a general question or observation I have made.

Find for me some examples of my writing that upset you.  My guess is you do not read me that often.  A for my father, I know for a fact he often writes to get a response.  I do not.  I write in order to get actual impressions from people.  If you check out my blog 'Do Not Read Any of My Blogs' you will see I have talked about some of the bloggers here who disagree with me and are very polite about and instead of discrediting me beaus they disagree, they in a very polite and reasonable manner express their views and their beliefs.  You might try to do that some time and see how it works.

I do not attack Christianity in the least.  My guess is that you are actually more upset that I present hard to answer questions instead of really attacking.  If I were really attacking, such as you claim I do, then it would be much easier for you to ignore me and blow me off.  But if I present questions that you actually are unable to answer, then that feels like more of an attack because you it does cause you to question things.

I have no idea if we would get along face to face.  Most likely we would both put on a great show to the other.  I have had conversations with some really, really annoying people who I have wanted to choke throughout the conversation and have been able to maintain a level of politeness that made them feel as if we got along.  But that is besides the point.  As I said in the past, it seems like people are more honest when blogging because it is not face to face.

As always, whenever someone makes the accusation that I present anything as being true or proven that is not, I ask for evidence.  if you really feel that I make statement claiming something to be fact that is not proven, please find for me one of these.  I have openly left the challenge out there for anyone to find such a thing.  If you do and I am actually in the wrong on it, I will as always write a full post talking about my mistake.  This challenge has been made by me many times here and every single time the person who made the claim has found an excuse to back out and not follow through with any proof.  So have you made such a claim about me without any actual proof to back it up?  If you believe I am how you claim I am , please shoe me proof of this.  Find for me examples of my writings here that back up your claims, any of them.  Show to me that this is not just your preconceived notions about me, but are actually provable claims being made by you.

posted by kooka_lives on February 4, 2006 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, yup, I'm talking about YOU!

How very perceptive you are! 

Have you ever stepped back and attempted to put yourself in others' shoes, and attempted to see something from another person's point of view?  I do it frequently, which has helped me to have a much better understanding of a variety of different personalities.  I am a perceptive person, especially when dealing with people face to face.  I try to see where they're coming from and, although I may disagree with them, I am generally able to understand and even commisserate with their point of view. 

Anyway, the point of all this is that I never get that impression from you.  I don't see you trying to understand another person's perspective, or try to understand what makes a person tick.  And, for that matter, there's just something bombastic about your writing that annoys the heck out of me.  I have the same opinion of your dad's writing, so perhaps it's all in the family.  I get the feeling that before you finish reading a blog you have already jumped to a specific conclusion and are working on a return attack, without taking the time to get to the heart of the matter.  And, truth be told, that is how I often feel when I read YOUR posts.  I become so danged defensive that I cannot wait to comment because I wish to rebut what you've written!  So I do the same danged thing of which I am accusing you! You make your attacks against Christianity personal, somehow, by what you've written.  I don't get that deep level of in your face attack when Gome is writing.  Perhaps that's the difference.

Am I right about this?  Likely no -- if you're the one responding.  But then again, it's all about perceptions, eh?  Most of Gomedome's blogs don't give me that defensive "I must defend at all costs" feeling.  In fact, with many of his blogs I feel shame because he has spoken very powerfully of so many personal experiences with the Catholic church that have caused him to have a strong antipathy towards that religion. I'm not Catholic, but as a Protestant Christian we have many of the same roots, and I actually feel some degree of responsibility for what he experienced, even though I am not personally responsible.  Sure he blasts Christians on a regular basis, but there's just something about his style of writing that is more palatable. 

And that, I guess, is just my personal preference, to which I am entitled!

So is there an answer to this communication dilemma?  Nope.  Although I bet we might actually  have a blast talking in person, and I bet it would be a completely different experience than this writing business.  But I live in Michigan and you live in Colorado (if I remember correctly), and I have no interest in taking a trip to CO so I guess we'll just have to limp along with the current method of communication.

So speak your mind, Kooka. I'm betting there's a good chance I WON'T agree.  But what's new?

posted by JanesOpinion on February 3, 2006 at 7:04 PM | link to this | reply

I almost thought you were talking about me here

But since I never at all state anything ot be fact unless I do have proof of it, I know it can not be me you were talking about.  I have made it very clear what things are my opinions and what are proven facts and I very much understand the difference.

I have also never even come close to trying to prove Christianity to be false, just flawed as are all beliefs out there.  In fact many times I have admitted very openly that my beliefs are equally valid as all others since there is no 100% proof for any of them.

And since I do write my arguments in a thought provoking manner, with a degree of eloquence, asking questions in a way that tests and challenges one's faith, in a tone that is most of the time very decent, I once more must figure you are not talking about me here.

So if it is not Gomedome or myself, I am a little lost as to who this post is about.  We are the two most vocal atheists here on Blogit.  And Gomedome himself will even most likely admit to fitting the character this post was talking about.  So if Gomedome is what you can work with, I really wonder who it is here that is an atheist that is what you see as the problem.

posted by kooka_lives on February 2, 2006 at 8:14 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks DrJPT!

posted by JanesOpinion on February 2, 2006 at 6:03 PM | link to this | reply

Excellent Post! Well Said

posted by Sophistie on February 2, 2006 at 5:46 PM | link to this | reply