Comments on Watch Your Phraseology!

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Xeno, Editor, Food et al

I'm no expert on the English language, but I can say that historically the "that" word was invariably used in any literate piece of prose.

It was journalists and editors who adopted the pernicious and incorrect deletion of it, and as always, most of us follow like sheep. 

We live in an era of cliche-ridden, sloppy, and often baffling modes of speech

posted by ariel70 on November 22, 2005 at 8:18 AM | link to this | reply

yes you are correct

the word "homophobic" is used too liberally to describe those people who approve of such sexual orientation.
although I, myself, do see homosexuality as natural and not condemned as others do, I think that the debate is obscured when such a term is used without specificity.
both sides of the debate need to see the other side more clearly.

posted by Xeno-x on November 22, 2005 at 7:57 AM | link to this | reply

Your Journalism prof was incorrect.

In the phrase "the fact that," the word "that" introduces a restrictive clause ... Analyze it this way, it makes it easier:

The fact --- what fact? This fact: "a person does not approve of marriage between two persons of the same gender or of sexual relationships between two persons of the same gender" Okay, that fact.

All of the words between "a person" and "same gender" belong to a clause which describes (restricts) the nature of the specific fact being discussed. Thus, the word "that" is necessary to conjoin the simple subject of the sentence in question with its rather lengthy modifying clause and to indicate the restrictive nature of said clause.

While the word "that" may be omitted in some cases, in this particular case, it is crucial that it remain. I'll make a note to discuss this topic at length sometime soon, as it is one that gives even professional writers and grammarians cat-fits.

posted by editormum on November 22, 2005 at 7:50 AM | link to this | reply

Editormum...

What is your input?  You start your second paragraph with "The fact that a person..."   According to a journalism professor I had, the fact is not that, rather it is the point you are making.  The statement would then be, "The fact a person..."  He was always harping on this and I hear and see it everywhere.  Was that just his interpretation or was he correct.  I am not picking on you, after all, he could have been wrong or usage may have changed.  I enjoy your grammar tips.

posted by food4thought on November 21, 2005 at 8:06 PM | link to this | reply