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alt.muslim, I leave for a few months and you start getting muchos comments.
At least, I'm not the only writer of comments anymore. Thanks for the story. Amazing reader opinions here.
posted by
benzinha
on November 25, 2005 at 9:30 PM
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alt muslim this is for you
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/berg_killing.zip
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 13, 2005 at 7:40 PM
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Tapsel-T
Looks like Cantey is trying to start another debate here with you. As for my debate with DamonLeigh, it has moved over to his blog "Stop The Wars", and I have a new post in my "Mohammed" blog, so you guys may want to follow us over there.
posted by
GoldenMean
on November 13, 2005 at 2:06 PM
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so basically infidels should blind ourselves to the long history of Islams unquenchable thirst for violence, wars and bringing submission to unbelievers by pretending this violence in France is not rooted in the religion itself.
No way.
But still the phony, handwringing, death worshiping useful idiots who are the christianity hating liberals will continue to provide you shelter from exposure.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 11, 2005 at 10:20 PM
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alt.muslim, your post is very well documented. There is quite a debate going on in the comments. I wish that there was something that I personally could do to make the problems in France and elsewhere go away. It seems that all I can do is read about it. Nothing that I could say would really help.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 11, 2005 at 10:10 PM
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DamonL
To answer your last question, where you ask us to be honest, after your heart-rending scenario of poverty and injustice, this is my answer. I would NEVER burn someone else's car for the reasons you mention. NEVER. It would simply not be an option. Moral principle limits a person's response to social injustice. Social injustice is never a valid reason to commit crimes against specific persons. I would starve to death before I burned another person's car.
posted by
GoldenMean
on November 11, 2005 at 9:46 PM
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DamonL
Your willingness to justify or excuse criminal acts is disgusting. But let me respond to the solution of shooting the rioters when they are caught in the act of burning a car. The rioters are destroying not just a car, but thousands of cars, which will cripple the economy of an entire nation. This calls for extreme measures by French police, but don't worry, the wimps will never do what really needs to be done. Personally, I would definitely shoot anyone I caught burning my car in America, and so would most gunowners in America..... THAT is why this will not happen on any large scale in America.
On the other hand, in England, you have disarmed your people, and you have a huge population of Islamic extremists, so when this travelling Islamic riot comes to your neighborhood, as it will someday, you had better have your garden-hose ready to put out your burning car, or house, or flat. But you can tell the rioters how much you understand their pathetic plight, join them in their righteous outrage, and maybe they won't burn your car. Or maybe they will. Because you are a filthy unbeliever, an infidel. That is something that you and I have in common.
Most of the rioters are said to be young Islamics, NOT the desperate parents and older workers as you claim. Parents have been reported as begging their kids to stop this madness. They are punks, spurred on by the anti-Western propaganda preached in many mosques. The young are always the most receptive to doctrines of violence and vengeance. To them, you and I are infidels, inferior human beings, whose property can be destroyed at will. There is this element in the riots. If you cannot see that, then you cannot see beyond the end of your own nose.
You say that these rioters are dangerous. That is true, and the French can stop the riots only if they become MORE dangerous. People who resort to violence first and without just cause, can generally be stopped only with reciprocating violence. But the French will probably just use curfews and searches to put on a good show, and let the rioters exhaust themselves after burning a thousand more cars and buildings.
posted by
GoldenMean
on November 11, 2005 at 9:30 PM
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GM and BC...
...you to really do not have a clue, do you? You just can't see beyond the end of your own noses.
It's incredible.
I mean, let's start with the idea of answering the problem by shooting people. Yes, well done GoldenMean! I mean - brilliant! It's like that's never been tried before - like, since before we even had guns!!! And it's always worked before, right? Right? Or maybe not. And are you not a Christian? Who do you suppose Jesus wants you to shoot? Do tell.
And what's this shit about people burning cars who can't afford top buy cars? You mean, it's all about jealousy? Failed aspirations? Keeping-up-With the Jonses gone haywire? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT???
Try this.
You've been living in cramped conditions in a run-down part of town for three years. You don't want to be there. You don't even want to be in France. You want to be back home, with friends and family, but you can't go back, because your government wants you dead because you are from the 'wrong' ethnic or tribal or religious group. You need money to move out to better accommodation, which means earning it. Unfortunately, the government has made it impossible for you to get papers so that you can work legally. This is the same government that has clamped down on companies employing 'illegals', so it's impossible to find work. And of course, the welfare system is not open to you, either.
But you still have to eat. Your baby still needs clothes and food. You do what you can. But the longer you're caught in an economic no-mans land, the lower your standards drop. You start to do what you can to keep the family together and fed. You commit crimes - mainly theft - not because you're a criminal, but because you're a family man, backed into a corner. You're living moe and moe on the edge. Your kids are getting hassled at school, and on the way to and from school. Police stop them often, sometimes keep them for four hours and make a parent come and collect them. Then, you hear that two kids from the neighbourhood had been fleeing from the police when they jumped into a substation and were electrocuted; a third is still in hospital. These kids went to school with yours, and now they're dead.
Now, be honest. If this is you, are you burning cars because you want a car? Or are you burning cars because you are utterly desperate. You have nothing to lose and, as such, you're dangerous.
Wise up, people.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on November 9, 2005 at 5:12 PM
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I don't see how anyone could find the perpetrators of this violence
anything but reprehensible. Once again we see immigrants from Africa acting irrationally violent, blaming everyone but themselves for their problems.
posted by
FreeManWalking
on November 7, 2005 at 8:55 PM
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Poverty doesn't excuse this in any way
The rioters cannot afford to buy a car, so they use this as justification to burn everyone else's car? They are criminals, and should be shot when caught in the act.
Are you arguing that Islam has little to do with the criminal behavior? I think it has a great deal to do with it. Or at least, the rioters' INTERPRETATION of Islam has a great deal to do with it, as wrong as their interpretation is.
posted by
GoldenMean
on November 7, 2005 at 8:43 PM
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