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- Go to THE GARDEN OF EDEN . . . WHAT IS IT? (reprise)
that is according to the writer of Genesis. Are there other writings to validate this?
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 28, 2005 at 1:27 PM
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Xeno,
You can use the story metaphorically indeed, but the actual event did in fact take place.
posted by
NOPEACE
on October 28, 2005 at 10:02 AM
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NOPEACE
it is a real story in a sense as relateds in the Book of Genesis.
However, when it is applied metaphorically, I think my explanation serves well.
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 28, 2005 at 9:47 AM
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ariel
drinks sounds good
a little camaraderie goes a long way.
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 28, 2005 at 9:46 AM
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xeno
Adjusting his wig and gown, Ariel QC, cleared his throat, and said " I defer to m'learned friend's superior knowledge, my'lud.
Drinks in the Hammurabi Arms after the trial, Your Honour?
posted by
ariel70
on October 28, 2005 at 8:03 AM
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Xeno,
The Tower of Babel was not a metaphoric story, it was an actual event. This was the first time that man joined together in unison to rebel against God.
posted by
NOPEACE
on October 28, 2005 at 8:02 AM
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ariel70
Mosaic laws? --- hmmm . . . considering that this part of the Bible was written @ 1200 BCE - 850 BCE, and the "Redactor" inserted parts of it around 600 and then more may have been added after the Babylonian captivity (@507 BCE) we would have to say that since, according to this quote,
"[Hammurabi] was the ruler who chiefly established the greatness of Babylon, the world's first metropolis. Many relics of Hammurabi's reign ([1795-1750 BC]) have been preserved, and today we can study this remarkable King....as a wise law-giver in his celebrated code. . ."
then Hammurabi's code predates this writing.
Looks like the debate here is whether "The Law" referred to by the Apostle Paul in Romans was the Mosaic Law, or whether this "Law" predates Mosaic, thus was something else.
You see NOPEACE's response below. I say that "The Law" indeed does predate Moses. I say that The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was "The Law". This whole passage is metaphoric, not literal. Period.
We can see the metaphor in The Garden, which is virtually identical in description to hunter-gatherer societies. Compare contemporary similar societies (Amazon Indians, African Bushmen, etc.) The writer took stories from the dim reaches of the past about these societies, which looked very much like an ideal (the writer was anti-civilization and its rules, etc., as far as I can see [see Tower of Babel, etc.), and created The Garden; then he took humans setting up rules of law and made that into the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (people who set up laws really are "as gods" [note the plural, as in Genesis 1:1, where "Elohim", a plural noun, is translated as "god"], you must admit, no matter where they are). Then the writer described the movement of humans from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian. Very interesting here is the statement that the woman would give birth in pain, insinuating that there was a time when women did not experience pain in childbirth, a hint at our evolutionary past.
The Tower of Babel story is a metaphor for an empire that conquered peoples from varying lands and cultures and lagnuages and then discovered that they could not build their edifice due to the differences in cultures, etc. of the varied conquered peoples.
We find the kernel of truth behind the stories, and we discover a greater truth than if we take these stories literally word for word.
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 28, 2005 at 7:51 AM
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Xeno and Nopeace
Correct me if I am wrong, but what evidence is there that the Mosaic Laws predated/postdated those of Hammurabi?
posted by
ariel70
on October 28, 2005 at 6:14 AM
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Xeno,
Of course I will debate you on your statements in your post.
In Your Post:
II.
You asked if Adam and Eve ever got the chance to eat from the Tree of Life. Adam and Eve did not get eat from the Tree of Life. It was because of this purpose that God removed them from the Garden of Eden. God said they have already eaten from the tree of knowledge, we must remove them from the Garden before they eat from the Tree of Life lest they become God's like us.
In Your Post:
III.
You say that the Law of Moses was the first law given to man. This is not true. The law of Moses was the first "WRITTEN LAW" given to man in the form of the 10 Commandments on the two stone tablets. The "FIRST LAW" given to man was when God told Adam that they can freely eat of any tree in the Garden except the Tree of Knowledge saying that if you eat of this tree you shall surely die. That was God's first law to man and that man was Adam.
Example: If you tell your children you can eat anything in the kitchen except cookies, if you eat cookies you shall surely be in trouble. If you come in the kitchen and see them eating the cookies, have they disobeyed you, or is it not a disobedient act since you didn't write it down?
I do however agree that Adam and Eve defined sin, which if you look at the definition of sin, it states that sin is a "Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God." Adam and Eve deliberately disobeyed the known will of God because he told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge and they did so anyway.
In your post:
IV:
You talk about Adam and Eve being cast out of the Garden. Inside the Garden, God provided Adam and Eve with all their needs, they had all the food they needed in the Garden which was provided by God. When man was cast out of the Garden, God told them that man would have to till the ground from now on to provide food for himself. There were no developed countries, Adam and Eve were the only humans.
Also, the society in which we live in now which evolved from the barter system to the use of cash and credit is the system of "this world" which is a system that was presented to the thoughts of man by Satan. This system is what the bible refers to as babylon. If you take notice, most of the worlds ills revolve around money. Not all the worlds ills but most. If you don't have money, you can't eat, clothe yourself, provide for your family or anything, satan uses it as a wedge to drive man from God. (I'll explain this in a later blog of mine)
V:
You often as about the location of the Garden of Eden. To be honest, nobody truly knows where The Garden of Eden was located. Many biblical schlors believe the Garden existed in what is modern day Iraq. However, the Garden is no longer located here on Earth, it was hidden from man with the outcast of Adam and Eve.
Also you talk about "The Kingdom of God." You actually do have this right by stating that the Kingdom of God is a state of mind. But I don't believe you fully understand what the state of mind is. The Kingdom of God means having the state of mind to understand "God's way of doing things."
You also mentioned "The Kingdom of Heaven" being a state of mind as well which is also true, but again, I don't think you fully understand what that state of mind is. You mentioned that it is within us which is also true, but when the bible talks about The Kingdom of Heaven, it is talking about obtain spirtual fulfillment by being in the presence of God. Christians continuosly strive to develop a stronger relationship with God. This is not to say that he is not allowing us to get to know him, but we in fact have to get past ourselves and our logic and really intune ourselves in our faith to trust in God for all our needs so that we can actually hear his direction for us when we pray to guidance and direction.
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God post, check out my post on our society and how it is taken over by money.
posted by
NOPEACE
on October 28, 2005 at 6:05 AM
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