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Yes, but I still speculate...

that the reason the "wrong" system of social control is in place has a lot to do with traditional male sexism. I'm sure there were plausible-ish sounding arguments made by opponents of the suffragette movement, but not only are those arguments rightly considered bogus today, I don't think they were ever valid. This may seem bold or arrogant or whatever, but I don't believe that any cultural norms or traditions justify state-sanctioned discrimination. As we speak, the Iraqis are writing a constitution that says women shall be equal in a way that does not offend Islamic sharia. They had better be using the most liberal possible nterpretation of sharia; but I suspect not. I have never heard a persuasive rational argument for male dominance over women. I am no reflexive feminist; I enjoy mocking some stupid notions advanced by extreme feminists as much as the next guy. But fundamentalist religion imposed by men who consider themselves ordained dominant by God as rightfully in control of women's lives does not strike me as being fundamentally different from the stupid notions that men used to justify the same oppression of women in Europe and the United States. And if, as defenders of Islam remind us, Islamic law is not indeed discriminatory against women or in favor of religious persecution, as I am prepared to believe, then there should be no problem expecting Islamic law in practice to treat women and religious minorities as equal. Those who make that argument have to be prepared to explain why the law they said was so benign is being used to treat women as inferiors and force people to practice Islam, if indeed they are arguing that Islam is not fundamentally different on such matters than western liberalism. 

There may be some valid rationale for things we would deem wrong in our culture. I really am open to it at an intellectual level. But I must confess that emotionally I find any attempt to justify the abuse of socially or politically weaker people (who usually include women) profoundly offensive and repugnant. 

posted by Dylan24 on August 4, 2005 at 5:18 AM | link to this | reply

There's an...

...interesting line there that your wry comments reveal - and I'm not at all sure I know where it actually sits.

There's another element to that line - that of the Law of Unintentional Consequences. Some things we see as 'wrong' are in place for a reason, and that reason MAY be hidden from us, MAY be still valid, and removing whatever it is MAY have disasterous consequences.

Thanks for reading.

D

posted by DamonLeigh on August 2, 2005 at 5:27 AM | link to this | reply

All right, Damon

Because you mentioned that you don't need be British to care (what a perfectly wry way of putting it) I went and signed that e-mail message. The part about upholding wage and labor standards internationally is especially important. But that also means that we are daring to impose our values on other peoples -- just like those in Asia and Africa who maybe don't want democracy and women's rights, maybe Chinese and Indian workers don't want higher wages and safe working conditions -- maybe they have a different culture. Can we really impose our imperious western values on them like this? 

Sorry, I can't help myself. I just can't let the point be left unstressed that human rights need to be universal, no "cultural difference" or "sovereignty" excuses -- whether we're talking about working conditions or civil liberties.

posted by Dylan24 on August 2, 2005 at 5:18 AM | link to this | reply