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If either the Fundamentalist Christians or Fundamentalist Muslims...
are right, then God is a malicious teenager...scary thought, like that kid Malachi in Children of the corn...
I tend to agree with both Temple and Mary, sort of, we need to always question, never harm, and seek our own path...peace man...
posted by
jimmy68
on May 18, 2005 at 3:11 PM
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Actually
To give you the Latter Day Saint theory, we dont' believe that people are damned for not believing in God. We believe that if they are not taught the truth here, they recieve the chance to learn it for themselves and either accept it or reject it from that point. Now to be honest I can't point out the exact verses in the Bible that say that, but it makes sense to me that a loving God would be fair and not just damn us straight to hell for being born under circumstances where God is a female, or a statue in a monestary, doesn't exsist, or whatever have you.
posted by
tigerprincess
on May 18, 2005 at 2:08 PM
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Hacker,
I just saw "Kingdom of Heaven" yesterday and I know you did, too. It did inspire the same line of thought, Adan I put no credence in the history accuracy of the story. One thing, the main character did come away with that the "good" characters repeated more than once: faith is in the head and heart. The "holy places" that the Crusades were fought over were symbolic, important to the Church for wealth and power, but in the end, "worth nothing".
Your premise: if a person was born and raised one religion rather than another, he or she would interchangeably become a different faith, because of how they were raised, supposes a kind of "controlled experiment". Unfortunately, in life, there are no "controlled experiments", no re-running the experiment, because this is it, no dress rehearsals. I personally believe in destiny, the hand of God, creating us individually and uniquely for the role we are meant to play.
I am suspicious of churches, I have not found one I can agree with, because of the human predilection to be corrupted by the desire for power, money, resources and authority. Because the pulpit has been corrupted to be used to wage wars, does not mean that the intrinsic faith is wrong. Another point Ridley Scott made in the movie: each one is put to the test and answers before God for our actions. What "the church" and the current crop of religious evangelicals does in his name, those people will answer for. Each player in this game will answer for the way the game is played out, and the master designer of this world waits to see how each player will play their part.
posted by
Blanche.
on May 18, 2005 at 1:08 PM
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Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia
the fear of long words.....can't resist a challenge :) thanks that was fun....how funny is that?
As for this post, I can't really speak to it in some ways, as my beliefs are so different religiously. I believe in sickness, and I believe in evil. I believe someone can be born without a soul. I don't believe in god, but I believe in love and the power of it....the connectedness of everything in the universe. Compassion is missing so many places, unfortunately. I have no answers for you, except to say, I often lose myself in the dark, too. But, my faith, Buddhism, allows me to find a path again. Compassion is really the foundation of Buddhism. It's not religion for me, it's a philosophy....a way of seeing the world and its people. I see the Dalai Lama who lost so much, yet you always see him laughing. He was exiled from his own country (Tibet) by the Chinese very violently as a boy and never allowed back. Tibet now is ruled by them, and they are trying to ruin the process of choosing the next Dalai Lama, make him Chinese (he's always Tibetan, it's part of Tibetan Buddhism...which is what I most identify with). In fact, it's even been said, that the boy who is the key to choosing the next Dalai Lama, the Panchen Lama, was kidnapped in 1996 at 6 years old by the Chinese and has not been seen since. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of Buddha, and the Panchen Lama will help find the next one after he passes on. (Theory being he was a reincarnated assistant or helper lama...to that effect.) Now, the Chinese have produced their own Panchen Lama. If this is true, if you are a Tibetan Buddhist, this is a frightening thing. This means the person chosen will not be the real Buddha and we may never find him again. (This endith the Buddhist lesson.) Yet, the Dalai Lama works, smiles, spreads love and peace. I get mad when my checking account is overdrawn.
It's okay to question these things, sweet boy. There are some lovely, peaceful, compassionate Christian people in this world. On this site. I could not make my peace with that religion, that way, the bible, it was not for me. But, I think I was a Buddhist since birth. It just took me a while to figure it out. Question, examine, read other paths. Find what brings you peace. If it is Christianity, find people, like our sweet Roofie here, to talk to (or talk to him anyway). If not, that's okay, too, and let no one tell you differently. Ultimately, there are over 2000 religions in the world. We can't all be wrong or right. Even in the bible it says that god comes to us in the form we most recognize. Maybe you just haven't found the right form or process. One reason I love Buddhism is they encourage study, dismiss no one, judge no one. All religions are okay. Buddha did not want to be a prophet, he wanted us to find our own path....study, question, examine.
You deserve a place of peace in your heart and soul. Fundamentalists do not represent spirituality. You have a lot to deal with, and you know I understand some of it in my way. This helped me, so, maybe it will help you, too. Next time something like that comes around, close your eyes and think of something good that makes you feel tranquil and think, they know not what they do. Email, okay, if I can help? 
p.s. When I talk about this lately, people have asked me questions about the Dalai Lama and the situation in Tibet. He actually lives in India with many exiled Tibetans. There is a link on my blogs, or you can just go to the Tibetan Photo Project. Really amazing. The monks had never seen a camera until 2000 when they sent a bunch of disposable ones to them! Another breakfast comment/post brought to you by Temple. ;)
posted by
Temple
on May 18, 2005 at 1:34 AM
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Hack-
I don't think he's weeping for us. I think he's hoping we'll use the "superior" intellect we've been given to figure out our own truths. Being true to yourself and not intentionally harming others in the process is the only truth I know, but that's just me.
posted by
UsualSuspect
on May 17, 2005 at 7:27 PM
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roofpig
r00ƒp19, ¥0µr £337 7¥p1n9 $|{1££2 4r3 73h r0xx0r b4b¥. ¥34H!
I'll look into that book at once!
posted by
Unidentified_Hacker
on May 17, 2005 at 5:11 PM
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Unidentified haX0r - This really has nothing to do with anything except that I'm reading it right now and it has to do with God. If you can, find a copy of "To Reign in Hell" by Steven Brust. It's out of print, but you can probably dig it up. It's freakin' awesome. I hope to finish it either tonight or tomorrow on my lunch break.
w3rd.
posted by
roofpig
on May 17, 2005 at 4:07 PM
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UH, save yourself a lot of trouble....
I have tried this line of thought for probably close to 30 years (I started it really young!) Basically, the problem is you are trying to make sense out of religion. Every religion defies logical explanation. They like to hinge it on words like faith and belief, but the result is the same. No matter which one you choose you have to throw rational thought out of the window, accept whatever you are told and go with the flow.
Now, that said, I will tell you something that occurred to me more recently which actually makes a mite more sense. Put yourself in God's shoes. How would you handle humans? What would you think they would expect from God?
posted by
FactorFiction
on May 17, 2005 at 1:51 PM
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He weeps, Hacker...Believe me...
Wars are born of our own making...NOT God's. He never said, "Go and wage war in My holy name." What He said is, "Fight the good fight."
I just wish people would learn to accept and obey His words for what they really mean...Not their own perceptions of them...
posted by
lovelyladymonk
on May 17, 2005 at 11:55 AM
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