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Yes, the truth often does seem to be in between extremes. Not always, but when I listen to opposing arguments and find merit that stands scrutiny in each, I conclude tentatively that the best policy is a mix of each argument's recommendations. This is the reason that my writing spurs objections from both left and right on many issues; for example, in social-economic policy, I favor a mix of market and statist measures. More controversially, even believing the right of life should be regarded as inherent, not conditioned on age or development, I have made concessions to the arguments of embryonic stem-cell research proponents with regard to left-over lab embryos. On this comments exchange, though, we've seen a lot of extreme views on American foreign policy. The fierce anti-war critics should read Damon Leigh's defense of the 1991 Persian Gulf War for a very nice example of balance (Damon Leigh is fervently anti-war in most cases, as well as sharply critical of capitalism as we know it.) Good to know there are balanced and nuanced thinkers like you out there.
posted by
Dylan24
on
April 26, 2005
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10:49 AM
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Dylan, once again, very well said.
You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir. And, even though our beliefs fall on opposites sides most times, I always appreciate your delivery. 
In this case, I, the liberal, agree with what you said 100%. This ugliness is just out of control. I don't understand it. It actually makes me sad. It is our governments that take these actions. I certainly had no say in what happened in Iraq, even when we vote it barely counts anymore. The generalizations and blanket statements only make things worse.
I'm afraid that common ground is not the goal, however. Although, I have seen many attempts to reach it from others with Limey...the truth lies in the middle, gentlemen.
posted by
Temple
on
April 24, 2005
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7:17 AM
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Temple:
thank you, really, for the compliment. That means so much to me.
I can't tell how much of the dialogue between GlennB and Mighty Holy Warrior is serious and how much is sarcasm or jest.
In any case, GlennB should consider that blanket statements about a country, good or bad, is part of the problem, not the solution. America did not wage war on Iraq; the Bush administration did, amid much ambivalence within the country and its government. Afghanistan did not attack the U.S. on 9-11; a group supported by Afghanistan's Taliban regime did. Britain did not oppress Ireland or trade slaves; the British government did.
We need to make these kind of distinctions to avoid the kind of generalizations that traditionally are used by racists and chauvinists to glorify one country and demean another. For progressive liberals to fall into the same generalization trap would be a big mistake, for it is liberals who traditionally urge -- wisely so -- us not to judge the whole group by the actions of a few.
posted by
Dylan24
on
April 24, 2005
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7:07 AM
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Temple,
We are witnessing what happens when we get a man in the White House (President) who is as dumb as the American People! Their TV knowledge of World History makes them think they know everything and can speak for everybody!
I have no clue of anyone's background here! Everyone of you could be a Prince Charming or Princess or "Not". So lose the labels!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 24, 2005
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5:04 AM
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Unbelievable.
I don't know why I keep falling for this shit, but here I am. I agree with MHW and Dylan, who, Glennb you wack-job, was very well spoken. What's wrong Glennb? You don't believe MHW is black because he's more articulate and well spoken....overall more well educated then you? He can't help it that you're country trying to act like you know what you're talking about. I can support my country and my fellow Americans without being happy about the nutbag in the white house. Limey, all your facts aren't straight. If you are going to quote history, try and get it right. Ireland a source in England's side?....they had nothing. The Brit's wanted to conquer Ireland and turn it into a little model of itself. It caused years of fighting and death that has still not been healed. Without the Brits, there never would have been an IRA. MHW has the best points really, because this is become about the American gov't vs. the British gov't.....none of which we have fuck all to say about. The Brits historically have been as brutal and greedy as Americans. As far as people go, well, good and bad, it doesn't matter where you're from. Symphony is lovely, she's British. You, are not so lovely. See? I don't support the shit my gov't does. I don't support horrible, foul, evil people. But, I also don't think anyone else is any better than anyone else here. I'm not sure wtf YLF is talking about as usual....
posted by
Temple
on
April 24, 2005
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3:58 AM
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IT seems as soon as one ugly blogger leaves
an even uglier one appears. I will be avoiding this type of blogging too.
posted by
mysteria
on
April 23, 2005
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9:12 AM
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DOH!
posted by
Entrepreneur_Maker
on
April 23, 2005
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8:59 AM
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Failing to mend our ways?? Well at least I for one married the husband who actually loves me before popping out our two children!!!
posted by
TARZANA
on
April 23, 2005
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8:55 AM
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foul-mouth? lol...
posted by
Kiddo75
on
April 23, 2005
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8:44 AM
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Mightyholywarrior,
Like I said a bought or sold out Uncle Tom!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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8:42 AM
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GB, your thinking is warped which begs a big question: Just how much brain
damage did you suffer when that lynch mob down in your hometown -- Albany, Georgia -- tightened a rope around your neck and hung you from a tree?
Albany was the "lynch capital of the world," right?
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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8:28 AM
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MHW
Agreed..... Long Live the Queen and God Bless the UK! Truly a country who is friends with America!
posted by
Entrepreneur_Maker
on
April 23, 2005
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8:23 AM
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Mightyholywarrior,
It is clear that you are a bought or sold out Black Man (so you say)! How can you be soo ignorant and profess to be informed? What was the price of oil before America began this one nation Crusade? George Bush is a very dumb man! The advice he took to invade Iraq was bad doctrine back in the Bush I Administration when they drew it up! Again back to the premise of the writing here! People hate Americans because they are a lot less educated than they are told by corporate media. And there are a lot of them!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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8:19 AM
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Nah, country, I'm not stickin' to the topic. I'm gonna kick your ass one
more time. And I will begin by asking you this: Hot did that long, hot shower (made possible by all of the oil the US is stealing from "brown people) feel? Did it feel good? Or are you one of those people who only bathes once a week ... like only on Saturday nights?
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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7:51 AM
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Mightyholywarrior,
I cannot believe I went that low?
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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7:46 AM
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Mightyholywarrior,
This is not about you or me! Let us stick with the topic at hand. Americans are trying to get something they can't bully or buy! Respect! By the way yo mama said hi!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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7:42 AM
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And by the way, country, my photo is in Ariala's photo blog, and on the
webpage for my novel, proving that I am a black man. Why haven't you sent in a photo of yourself. Is it because you're ashamed of the way you look 'cause you look just like yo' mama.
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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7:34 AM
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Glennb, remember this: You just said I am "shit." So it's on, country. If
you don't run away, I'm gonna bust you up this morning. So, jes' keep right on brangin' it, bitch.
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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7:30 AM
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Mightyholywarrior,
The Europeans treated you like shit because you are! You probably thought they should treat you like they treated "white" Americans! Wake up Black man (so you say)!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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7:23 AM
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EM, I certainly don't give a damn what the Europeans think about us. And
one of the reasons why is when I was a young soldier stationed in Europe, a whole lot of the people over there treated me like shit -- just because I am black.
The point is, the Europeans are no better than anyone else when it comes to being "moral." Like Americans and others, some of them are "good," some are "bad," and most fall somewhere in between.
And I, too, have always had a high degree and respect for the British. As a matter of fact, I "fell in love" with that nation of people way when I was a little boy and saw the motion picture, "The Charge of the Light Brigade." And every time I watch that film today, I feel inspired at the end of it, and I also feel a great deal of respect for the British for being as courageous as they are.
Pushing "Limey" and "Glennb" aside, I consider the United Kingdom to be our best friends in the world.
In fact, I say, Long live The Queen!
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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7:09 AM
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DylanValente,
You said a lot of nothing! It can be as easily stated that the Soviet Union kept the United States contained! But America's conquest are based on a "Racist" doctrine of superiority! Some members of the "Brown Race" can continue to believe they won't be revisited by these "Rednecks". Without the hoods is a better disguise.
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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7:05 AM
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ha ha hahahah
Yep...as I have posted many times..don't even bother click click on sLimey
posted by
Entrepreneur_Maker
on
April 23, 2005
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7:02 AM
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Hey kids!
Sorry- I am not reading the comments or the post-
I just came by to tell you that I am entering the Two-Step program for avoiding Noxious Bloggers today.
Step 1: Don't read anything written by a noxious blogger or about a noxious blogger. This is done by now frequenting the places where they are known to congregate.
Step 2: Stick to step 1.
Cheerio! Pip pip!
posted by
FactorFiction
on
April 23, 2005
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7:00 AM
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Glennb, I just found some of your droppings in the comments section of my
post.
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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6:56 AM
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Most importantly?
Who cares what Europe thinks anyway? We're America and we can kick anyone's A**** on the planet.
What I dont' get...is that MOST if not QUITE most of the English I have met, would not engage in such blatent tripe things such as this. I rather like the English and find them to be a very decent folk.
I guess, like America has a few bad apples, so does England. Eh Mate? - Cheers!
posted by
Entrepreneur_Maker
on
April 23, 2005
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6:55 AM
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Limey,
These are things that need to be said! Americans are the most delusional lot on the Planet! They are the only citizenry who will stubbornly try to make shit smell rosy and tell you it's not shit! I.e. George Bush is a President? The notion of "support the president" was pounded into their heads by corporate media! Keep up the work you mentioned are a few reasons that I didn't know about!
posted by
Glennb
on
April 23, 2005
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6:52 AM
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Limey, "foul-mouthed?" You haven't seen me get "foul-mouthed" yet. Also,
the English were enslaving, stealing from and mass-murdering other kinds of people long before the US existed.
In addition, no matter how you try to slice it, dice it and justify it, England has done a whole lot of dirty deeds, regardless of the fact that the US may have supported and approved of many of its "ventures."
And one statement you made confounded me even more than most of the others you made did. Specifically, are you saying that just because the US (may have) supported England's attempt to addict nearly entire population of China to opium, that made it all right?
Additionally, contrary to what you expressed in your post, it has NEVER been fashionable (as you implied in this post) for nations to exploit, conquer, colonize and enslaves others. It is just that such conduct by ruthless, aggressive nations was a lot more prevelent in the past than it is today.
And one of the primary reasons why it is less prevelent today is that for decades (and ironically), the standoff between the presence of the former USSR caused the world to be a bit more orderly than it had been before. A case in point is the region of Europe formerly known as Yugoslavia. When that place was one country ruled by Tito with an ironfist, and in which the members of various ethnic and religious groups were forced to get along with each other, it was a peaceful place. But shortly after communism fell and the "forced unification" in the nation formerly known as Yugoslavia was lifted, all hell broke lose.
AND THE US BOUGHT MORE BLACK-AFRICAN SLAVES THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY? So in the hell what? That does not erase; nor does it justify, the fact that various England-based enterprises were among the biggest slave traders there were.
Finally, the logic that you displayed in your post is in the same league as a convicted murderer contending that he should be forgiven his crime because, after all, his misdeed had the approval and full support of his "partners in crime."
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
at
6:46 AM
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This opinion of the United States seems very common among Europeans. Some generalizations have merit, and one that proves this is the point that Americans are obscenely wasteful of natural resources and severely underinformed about politics (at home and abroad). Those Americans who do not fit these descriptions are almost certainly a minority.
On the other hand, the United States has its good points. It has repeatedly used its hard (military) power in service of human rights, in Kuwait, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and (arguably) Iraq, attempting in each case a policy that, if successful, would almost certainly leave the people better off. Its military power has deterred many potential threats to international peace and stability, from keeping the Soviet Union contained to preventing nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Also, it lets in enormous numbers of immigrants who seek -- and often get -- a better life. Finally, but most importantly, it has a remarkable degree of civic freedoms, in speech, press, religion, assembly and, to a lesser extent, elections (ours are not up to par by an advanced democracy's standards, no doubt).
This is not to defend the U.S. as a uniformly positive force in world affairs, for it has not been; but, lest we forget, Britain essentially started the U.S. by colonizing and abusing its colonists into fomenting revolution; and I cannot fathom your trying to defend Britain's reprehensible treatment of Ireland. But that's pretty much irrelevant to what I was arguing. Anyhow, cheers...
posted by
Dylan24
on
April 23, 2005
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6:44 AM
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Hmmm....I don't quite know what to say......
posted by
_Symphony_
on
April 23, 2005
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6:09 AM
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MHW, you did an incredible job pointing out what England has done. I
was impressed. Whiney Limey does a good job too, though I don't always agree...I can't seem to agree with anyone, but I do read you guys!
posted by
Ariala
on
April 23, 2005
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6:07 AM
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Ariala, your initial comment hit the nail squarely on the head & I wish I
made that clear in my post.
posted by
Feenix
on
April 23, 2005
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6:05 AM
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I meant to say America in the poem, not American...urgh!
posted by
Ariala
on
April 23, 2005
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6:04 AM
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offbeat, well, as always I'm not taking sides, but I think we're all
deceived by politicians, and the real people in control are the master minds behind the scenes. They hold the cards and it's a waste of time to use our energies putting down each other's countries.
posted by
Ariala
on
April 23, 2005
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6:01 AM
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Aril
Wow your sharp this morning. I won't give this slimly a click but I watch the comment section. If I read him, my coffee won't taste good...
posted by
Offy
on
April 23, 2005
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5:59 AM
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Limey, Limey, got kicked in the hiney
He kicked back and it got real slimey.
American and Britain are on the same side.
All its leaders have lied and lied.
It's all a joke, if you ask me,
We are just pawns of a conspiracy.
posted by
Ariala
on
April 23, 2005
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5:56 AM
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Mark2556
Good one...
posted by
Offy
on
April 23, 2005
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5:39 AM
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Yes, Great Britain is truly the epitome of "Island Paradise"....
....and a model for Truth, Justice and Perfection. So, why can't you mongoloids straighten out your teeth?
'Orthodontics' is an English word, yes?
posted by
mark2556
on
April 23, 2005
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5:24 AM
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You stereotype Americans too much...
your blog seems to be based on your hatred of Americans, which is a bad thing as far as i am concerned...
posted by
Marshallengraved
on
April 23, 2005
at
4:12 AM
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