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MandaLee -- you missed the point
You said that Jesus died for our sins and made your assertion in fairly absolute terms, with no disclaimers or caveates. I assumed that you were implying "all of mankind" by the word "our" which is the common perception of this statement. I will ask you again in plain English. How can this possibly be so if 60% of the world's population does not believe he was the son of God? Further, a full 30 billion or so people of the 105 billion people that have been born on Earth in history have never heard of him. Did he die for them as well? A pretty good deal for them don't you think? They get saved but don't have to carry the burdon of the accompanying guilt. Did those people escape original sin? Or did they go to hell no matter how good they were simply because of the misfortune of when or where they were born? You will not be able to answer any of these questions because the entire constructed concept is full of holes.
I appreciate the sentiment when you suggest that you have respect for my beliefs but please don't insult my intelligence with superstition and popular catch phrases.
posted by
gomedome
on March 19, 2005 at 8:56 PM
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Gomedome, Just as I respect your beliefs, I would tell anyone about Jesus
and let them decide on their own. We do have free will.
posted by
Amanda__
on March 19, 2005 at 5:42 PM
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MandaLee -- so if I am a Buddhist living in an isolated region of Tibet
and you were to put forth this idea, the answer you are likely to receive may follow these lines: "Jesus who?...died for what you say?" It is more than a little ironic that a particular faith system would hold that it's central icon made the ultimate sacrifice for all of mankind yet also holds that those who want to be saved by this icon must accept him as their lord and master. Little wonder that a full 60%+ of the world's populace today simply say no thanks. This does not even cover the idea that some hold this man was the son of God. Less than 40% distribution of his word on a global basis is a pretty poor performance for a supposed diety, especially after 2,000 years.
posted by
gomedome
on March 15, 2005 at 8:34 AM
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Gomedome, Good questions. Christ died on the cross for the sins
of all people.
By the way, I think its great we that can discuss our views respectfully.
MandaLee
posted by
Amanda__
on March 15, 2005 at 7:30 AM
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MandaLee -- I don't want to take issue with what you have just said but
ya know I have heard this before. It makes a nice story from which to extrapulate a lofty ideal but it also is a statement that cannot be anything but meaningless today. He died for "our sins"? Would that be the 40% of the world's populace that are currently Christian? Or would that include those who have never heard of him before and after his death?
posted by
gomedome
on March 14, 2005 at 7:17 PM
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saul_relative -- the exclusivism that you outline may have been my very
first revelation as a youth. In speaking to my neighbourhood friends, that all attended different churches and by comparing notes, it seems that every one of the different churches was preaching the idea that those who did not believe as they did had a ticket straight to hell. Then along the way I learned to count, on my fingers and toes at first but onto bigger things like percentages in time. When I realized what percentage of the world's populace the Christian world was excluding from heaven I began looking at the faith system with a jaded eye. Today as an adult I don't know what to say to someone that subscribes to this convoluted idea of eternal justice. The system is completely fabricated, the traditions as well as the rules and guidelines, yet in the year 2005 there are some in this world that insist on adhering to as primitive a mindset as they possibly can. It matters not to them that they will contradict themselves within a sentence, it doesn't even matter if nothing makes any sense at all. They proliferate a notion of a God that can't possibly exist by calling it faith. Then have the audacity to suggest that they have an exclusive path to heaven. People are funny sometimes.
posted by
gomedome
on March 14, 2005 at 6:53 PM
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Gomedome, Jesus wants us all with Him in Heaven. He died on
the cross for our sins, so that when we die we will not perish, but have eternal life. Jesus loves the world and doesn't want anyone condemned to Hell.
posted by
Amanda__
on March 14, 2005 at 6:32 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me, gomedome,
how Christians can beleive that followers of other religions are hellbound. Some sects are a little more lenient than others. I once had it explained to me that believers of other faiths would get a chance to convert to Chrisianity before being cast into the lake of fire. How Christianly noble of them to try to include the benighted who have no history of, no cultural affinity towards, nor a valid reason to accept a Jewish seditionist as their personal savior and redeemer. I see no reason why a morally and ethically good Confuscian or Hindu should suffer the fires of hell while a last-minute repentant miscreant sinner enters the gates of heaven. Where's the justice in that? And does god not say (somewhere in that heavy tome) "I am a just god'"?
On the gay matter, most Christians get the New and Old Testament crossed. Homosexuality (laying with men) is a sin in the Old Testament. Those who do not actually read their bible, just recieve the holy spirit and go a-thumpin, tend to combine the two, showing their ignorance of that in which they base their entire faith.
Personally, I have a remedy for preachers, pastors and ministers of the elitist clique -- a remote that sends them into cableland limbo.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 14, 2005 at 5:47 PM
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The Church Lady On S.N.L said pretty much the same thing about Satan
posted by
I-R-William
on March 14, 2005 at 3:20 PM
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james talked about showing faith by works
and faith without works is dead
your evangelist reminds me of that.
get jesus and you don't need to do anything else
be the same person you've always been
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 14, 2005 at 2:12 PM
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