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Justsouno -- fair enough but you are going to have to try to stick to
using words that I have actually said in describing my views. I have never used the words brain damaged, buffoons or stupid as a direct comment describing Christians. Deriving these comments through implication is still misquoting.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 7:17 AM
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domedome
I am sorry sometimes my comment page just goes the size of a bed sheet. I apologize.
posted by
Justi
on February 16, 2005 at 10:38 PM
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gomedome
| That is exactly what I mean. The person who said that to you was not speaking Christian. Just because one wears the lable it does not mean the can is filled with that product. I apologize for people who go under the name Christian and espouse terrible and hurtful things. That is not the principals at all but it is done all the time. But as I said I can only speak for me. I can say that it is my command to tell people about Jesus. It is not my job to try to save them. I can't. It is not my job to condemn them. I can't. It is not my job to be critical of anyone who is not a Christian. So many Christians do not get that. If you are not a Christian and you say you are not, then there is no Christian law applicable to you, only to Christians. I am to tell them and they me if we are out of line. I only think you, me and anybody should try to refrain from calling people buffoons for what they believe. I Thank you for your kind reply to me. I am not trying to preach to you. |
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posted by
Justi
on February 16, 2005 at 10:37 PM
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Justsouno -- you make it sound as if I have no justification to throw the
occassional barb. Regardless of the convenient persecution complex that some are capable of developing I never strike first, only respond in kind. I have found that very few who like to dish it out are capable of receiving the same in return. You did not make the following statement but it is a good example of what I am speaking of. This is a typical comment from one such person “wow, in your absence I had forgotten just how spiritually lost, confused and ignorant you are. Oh well.” This from a person who in the very next comment gave instructions on how to annoint and bless entrances to the abode with a concotion to keep evil spirits away. Yeah right ...I'm the confused and ignorant one but let's speak of things relevant to you.
In your comment you had one thing dead bang on correct, summed up eloquently in but 6 words "I can only speak for me" ....wouldn't the world be perfect if people could just leave it at that?
posted by
gomedome
on February 16, 2005 at 10:24 PM
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Gomedome
There are many credible scientists who do have all sorts of evidence you could appreciate. Yes the Bible does give credit for the Earth having been whatever billions possibly in age. It is the first and second verses in the Bible. There are too many people who do not understand the natural laws God put into place that govern whether one can or can not understand the Bible. I agree with Jane's and neither of us are uneducated. The Bible was not poured into my head as a child. I went through every other religion, theory, philosophy and one ton on misery until I found Christianity, I can only speak for me. But the peace and joy even in the midst of horror is there. I have experienced miracles that have no other explaination. I am sorry you are so angry, and I am not saying it is for you. But it hurts me unnecessarily for you to call believers stupid, crazy etc., we just believe different that you.
posted by
Justi
on February 16, 2005 at 10:01 PM
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JanesOpinion - That surprisingly was a pretty good comment.
I would have to argue the pretty darn good evidence statement however. One must purge themselves of biblical influence to see that the bible is merely a compilation of Zorathrastra's teachings, folklore and strongly influenced by Somerian societal and hierarchal structures. It is hardly an original work nor can it possibly be the word of God. 6 French men digging in a cave in France have conclusively proven the existence of man on this planet 120,000 years ago and while they were at it, proved that the weather patterns and climate had only a 3% variance from today. The bible sort of neglected to mention 114,000 of those years.
As for intelligent design, it's a shame to see people (in those who have debated this subject here) turn the one strongest reason I call myself an agnostic versus an atheist into a catch phrase. The point of the theory is to study complicated naturally occuring phenomona, not jam the pieces as if square pegs into round holes to make them fit some religious argument. And that is exactly what that type of approach is. You are making (even altering) the questions to make them fit the answers.
posted by
gomedome
on February 16, 2005 at 9:37 PM
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Hey Gome, with your take on religion and Christianity in general . . .
Keep in mind that the Bible is the mainstay of the Christian religion. So when you discount and discredit the Bible as simply a myth, you discredit almost all of Christianity. Furthermore, you discuss how little respect you have for Christians when all they use to back up their claims is the Bible, and yet for those of us who believe, the Bible is the Word of God and central to the Christian faith. Why not use it to back up our beliefs? Other bloggers, including myself, have mentioned a prodigious amount of pretty darn good evidence as to the veracity of the Bible (archaeology, historical findings, intelligent design, etc) which has pretty much been poo pooed by you and Kooka and others. It would seem that you choose to remain completely closed to the possibilities in spite of what evidence there is.
As the writer of Hebrews stated "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." You may make all the negative and derogatory comments about stupid and looney Christians (or whatever your statement was; I don't have it in front of me), but no matter what you say, I will choose to have faith in that which is unseen. . . no matter how inadequate it is to you.
Heck, you can't quit this blog. Who would tell us of the antics of "Sister Neverhadaman" -- or whatever her name is. But in all seriousness, to hear of your religious upbringing, it's no wonder you have come to this state of cynical agnosticism. 
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 16, 2005 at 4:25 PM
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Hammertime -- I have put forth many times that anyone expressing an
opinion about religion is in fact preaching to a certain degree. So in answer to your observation "have you ever considered............?" Yes and I have conceded this fact many times. The difference between myself and say a bible thumping loony, the like we have seen many times on Blogit, is that I cannot assume a position of moral superiority simply by aligning myself with traditional dogma. Without this luxury I am forced to have a bit of foundation for my contentions. I cannot relate outlandish and improbable stories such as the story of creation and expect that people will accept it. Nor can I deter from my own ideals of how an adult person should conduct themselves. Others are not bound by these restrictions, they can do and say any old stupid thing they please, justified in their minds as defending their faith. The most pious always seem to be the worst offenders.
As for wanting to have it both ways, sorry but you missed the mark on that one. Expressing a disapointment in the lack of quality of rebuttal is hardly wishing to have it both ways. This feeling of disapointment has evolved from an initial feeling of shock. I did not realize that such a large portion of society still holds such backward notions as believing in magic and fabricated demons. Shocking because the majority of the people on this site are citizens of the reigning economic might on the planet. With all of the inherent opportunities, wealth and resources that being citizens of such a country entails, what do they chose to do with these resources? Well let's just dust off the little black book and have a good old fashioned fundamentalist revival. Let's take a huge step back in time. Don't worry if anyone gets in your path or offers a dissenting opinion, we're working for the big guy, we can do whatever we please, says so right in this book. If they put up too much of a fight shoot a non believer for Jesus.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2005 at 6:55 AM
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to quote a famous movie line
"nobody's perfect"
posted by
Whacky
on February 15, 2005 at 6:53 AM
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Your own version of bible thumping
Did you ever consider that you are trying to do the same thing to the "bible thumpers" that they are allegedly doing to you? Isn't the point of your Blog to persuade others to see the world as you do? You seem to want things both ways. On one hand, you moan about all the preachy views of the religious yet you are disappointed when those same people don't want to debate with you. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm not sure here, but that is the impression I am getting.
Speaking for myself only, I would never debate with you on this topic because it would be like trying to convince you that the world is flat. You have a very detailed and specific knowledge of the bible, etc. that I do not possess. I read the bible to feel closer to God. I turn to the bible when nothing else seems to help. Reading the bible probably saved my life and for that reason alone I will not do it an injustice by attempting to convince someone who is determined to disagree with everything that the bible represents (or at least what it represents to me.) Now, that may not be the "Christian" thing to do but I would much rather use my time and energy trying to introduce Jesus and God to someone who isn't trying so hard not to believe.
In my view, the whole point of faith is to believe without seeing...to believe even in the face of staunch disagreement and cleverly crafted arguments such as yours. I enjoy your blogs but perhaps you are right. Maybe you should forward your questions and theories to people who are just as qualified to supply the adversarial air you are seeking. Maybe you will find your answers to religion if you pose your questions to someone who is equally as versed in the bible as you are. Go to the authorities. Who they are...I don't know. But whatever you do, keep questioning and keep searching for the answers. But don't be so disappointed if you don't get the answers you want.
posted by
jmhtribulas
on February 15, 2005 at 5:34 AM
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heh heh heh
posted by
majroj
on February 14, 2005 at 11:55 AM
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majroj -- that's it exactly
even winding up bible thumpers and watching them spin into orbit gets boring after awhile.
posted by
gomedome
on February 14, 2005 at 9:35 AM
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Atrocious behavior...works for the ayatollahs
The other thing about religion is that,if you don't want to play along, it gets as boring as blogging about blogging. Sort of like ping pong.
posted by
majroj
on February 14, 2005 at 8:26 AM
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Passionflower -- yeah right --- the bible says that
Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly.
posted by
gomedome
on February 14, 2005 at 6:15 AM
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The Bible says
Not to get mixed up in religious debates with people. Says it's a waste of time. So I normally stay away from blogs like yours.
posted by
Passionflower
on February 13, 2005 at 10:35 PM
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I meant them.....
posted by
Original_Influence
on February 13, 2005 at 9:10 PM
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Why thank you Original_Influence
those are very kind words.
posted by
gomedome
on February 13, 2005 at 9:05 PM
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Unidentified_Hacker -- thanx for stopping bye and commenting
When I began writing this posting last Spring I had no illusions of what level of influence it may have on anyone, it was more a method of organizing my thoughts while having a little rant. A little payback for the religious insanity that permeates our daily lives was also a small factor. I had been on Blogit for about 8 or 9 months before I jumped into this category so had a full realization as to what to expect. Simply that this is a very small audience and most issues of depth are treated superfluously. Still, I was surprised to find a festering nest of fully grown adults still believing in Satan.
posted by
gomedome
on February 13, 2005 at 9:04 PM
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I generally stay away from religion blogs, except for yours....
posted by
Original_Influence
on February 13, 2005 at 8:57 PM
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majroj --- no kidding
If I am surprised at anything (at my age I shouldn't be) it is that the only defence that some seem to have towards dissenting opinion is attrocious behaviour.
posted by
gomedome
on February 13, 2005 at 8:53 PM
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justAcarpenter -- the funny thing is that the new page view feature has
brought me to this point. One of my other blogs "The Raisins of Wrath" has as many page views and is a lot more fun to write. Not nearly as much acrimony and beligerence from others as is found occasionaly in this posting's comments. Now I am not for a minute suggesting that I did not ask for the slings and arrows, anyone that puts forth perspective counter to commonly held beliefs will be on the receiving end of some abuse. That isjust a given, it was the complete lack of quality and depth in those barbs or so called rebuttles that are the basis for my dissapointment.
posted by
gomedome
on February 13, 2005 at 8:51 PM
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You've summarized the theologic state
Theocracy means kill the doubter.
posted by
majroj
on February 13, 2005 at 8:51 PM
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pappy - I have no plans to leave Blogit - at least for the time being
I was merely expressing the realization that nothing much in the way of intelligent discussion ever takes place in the religion and spirituality category here. This is really just an observation as it does not much surprise me. Nor can I say that of late I have done much to add to the discussion.
posted by
gomedome
on February 13, 2005 at 8:38 PM
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Gomedome
I'll be honest, I've never read your blog before, but I have a thought on your current situation. I suppose whether or not you decide to keep this blog going depends on what you think is worth while. You'd be right if you thought you weren't going to change the minds of a large number of people on this web site, any other notion would be delusional. But perhaps you might make a handful of them see that their blind following and belief is somewhat misguided. Would those few people be worth the efforts you’ve made? Well, that’s completely up to how you look at it. As for the other people, it is unlikely that any amount of arguing would ever change their beliefs. So you have to choose: do you continue to speak you mind and hope that you get into the minds of those few who will listen, or do you accept that you’ll never make a big impact and give up? Whatever you choose, remember this: most of us hate being told to go to church, being told that we have to believe or we’ll go to hell, especially when these things are told in an intrusive manner. Don’t let yourself become one of them by attempting to force your own views and ideas on others.
posted by
Unidentified_Hacker
on February 13, 2005 at 6:41 PM
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From time to time, I often wonder why I bother as well…it does seem as though very little really changes. I’ll see what proof I can put together.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on February 13, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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I would be sorry to see you go, gomedome
I would like to ask you the same thing I asked PastorB when she left. What did you expect to find here and how close did reality come to those expectations? Are the people on Blogit any different than a random group of people at the market or in the park? What would you expect of them?
posted by
pappy
on February 13, 2005 at 5:05 PM
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Keep the faith.
posted by
Mentifex
on February 13, 2005 at 3:41 PM
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