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Gomey
I have no doubt that it would be very helpful to anyone who reads your material if you would say what you are trying to say, rather than disguising it in the double-talk that you used in you response to my comment.
posted by
Jack_Flash
on February 3, 2005 at 12:47 AM
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JJ_WildDog -- and typically the people that I am speaking to or about
are the last to realize it is them I am speaking to or about. The term cult and the notion of an individual having to be deprogrammed are reserved for the likes of the Jonestown residents after all. Not someone that is caught up in a mainstream fundamentalist revival, but at the end of the day the simularities are striking.
posted by
gomedome
on February 1, 2005 at 7:52 PM
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Gomey
I completely understand your feelings about these nuts, but they sure aren't new. I used to argue with a slew of them in San Francisco's Union Square. They were there every weekend. They carried bibles with dozens of colored ribbons marking passages. Question them on something that they didn't have a prepped quote for, and they would stand with tense, confused looks on their faces, flapping their bibles open and shut repeatedly, trying to think of an appropriate quotation. In a panic, they would finally lock up and I could walk away.
In my old form, I have debated with the wackos at Blogit, then I realized that I was reverting to my old, chain-yanking ways, and quit. They think that I'm the Devil, but they are going to think that no matter what I do, so I just go on about my business.
Look at the number of their comments and their ratings. They aren't long for the glaring lights of public scrutiny. They thought that the last election was their mandate to ''preach out and save the world for Jesus,'' but they are finding that they were wrong.
I won't go into the details of the Good/Evil, God/Satan dualistic world; a full-blown post is more appropriate for that. This is already too long.......... JJ
posted by
Jack_Flash
on February 1, 2005 at 6:17 PM
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empty_handed_painter -- or possibly The Troggs circa 1967 said it
in the song "Love is all around"
posted by
gomedome
on February 1, 2005 at 5:44 PM
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it's in written in the wind
it's everywhere I go. I think Sannhet said something about this -p- maybe you did people are trained from youth in their beliefs -- I bet that's Kooka that said that -- he's gonna shoot me -- I ought to be remembering what he said -- then when we are adults, we can bring forth the "proofs" for our belief. odd -- I sought belief -- I was not taught what to believe. I chose what to believe. I was considered "brainwashed" when I accepted "Worldwide Church of God" beliefs, because they were so radically different from tradtional accepted Christianity. if we consort with those of like minds -- that's good in nits way -- but we don't put our beliefs to the test -- testing is from exposing them to those of other persuasions. but some do just close up and don't allow the testing.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 1, 2005 at 2:54 PM
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Gomedome: thanks for the kind words, and glad you've got a broad mind, as I suspected.
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 1, 2005 at 6:45 AM
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gomedome
I think it is the duty of all caring people to make the lies known. But some lies are so outrageous that they are beyond mockery. Is there ANY human who really believes that guys drinking the right beer makes girls want sex?
posted by
pappy
on January 31, 2005 at 5:02 PM
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pappy -- that's an excellent point
there are certainly other forms of attempted brainwashing at work in our societies.
posted by
gomedome
on January 31, 2005 at 4:57 PM
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You're right about the brainwashing, gomedome
And the mediaeval church wrote the book. But today, the church is a distant fifth or sixth behind advertising, government, entertainment, news and the media, food, cars, etc. For the church to survive, IT needs to provide the deprograming counselling. You would say it is trading one for another, I would say that nature can't abide a vacuum so you try to choose what you want to fill it. Kooka touts atheism, you promote a reasoning process, I say it's learning about trust. May be all methods will meet someday, but I believe that at the least their virtues will.
posted by
pappy
on January 31, 2005 at 4:54 PM
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How true!
That brainwashing really does exist. Especially your mention of Satan and how denying his existence only furthers "their" argument that he exists in you. Heard it way too many times.
My guess if mankind is ever to achieve the level of awareness that we were meant to have and were "destined" to have, it would take a radical shift in the energy that we send out en masse.
And with the prevailing overall mindset that exists in this world today; it would seem nearly hopeless, save a few with open minds and hearts!
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 31, 2005 at 1:45 PM
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Experience -- it must be nice to believe in such absolutes
I don't mean anything by that other than the observation that you have not prefaced one sentence in your comment with the words "I believe that". Now having said this I agree with most of what you have said though I approach it much differently. God creating man in his own image I do not hold as a belief however, actually the other way around is more like it in that Man has created God in his own image. With all of man's inherent shortcomings and human frailties. I do believe that we must stop looking for a scapegoat in Satan and a paternal omnipotent presence and begin taking much more personal responsibility for ourselves. Same conclusions derived from decidedly different paths and defined differently.
posted by
gomedome
on January 31, 2005 at 11:22 AM
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Gheeghee -- one does not have to share your beliefs to see that you have
a pretty good grasp of your faith's core message. This unfortunately puts you into a minority. Quite often the underlying message is all but lost, to be replaced with superfluous man made trappings and shortcomings. One who is constantly questioning their own faith has to be on a more solid foundation than those who do not. Finally if you were suggesting that I am painting too many people with the same brush from impressions I have derived from a minority that is not relevant here. I am specifically speaking about a minority.
posted by
gomedome
on January 31, 2005 at 9:50 AM
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Voyager9940 -- when I get reprogrammed I want to sell Amway
hey why not? If I'm gonna piss people off, I might as well make a few bucks at it.
posted by
gomedome
on January 31, 2005 at 9:40 AM
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Ariala --- I have to promote tolerance
cause I know when I am outnumbered.
posted by
gomedome
on January 31, 2005 at 9:37 AM
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Deprogramming.
God created us all and everything in us. What God trys to tell people is have faith in the God Almighty within yourself. We all have a part of God inside us. We have gifts and talents to use to help ourself as well as others.
Man is in the Image of God. We are to have faith in that inner spirit God Gave to us. The reason God talks about not associating with worldly ways. Is that the sin of the world destroys your own soul. And the God in yourself destroys the sinful nature.
posted by
Experience
on January 31, 2005 at 9:34 AM
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Gome, as you know, we don't agree on religion, but we agree on the
need for toleration. Any religion or group (including atheists) that doesn't tolerate freedom of choice is part of the brainwashed. Communism, as taught in Soviet Russia, was a sense of brainwashing.
posted by
Ariala
on January 31, 2005 at 9:23 AM
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You make two interesting points.
"The individual that has been brainwashed has all of the answers, at least they feel they do. Not realizing that what they have been subjected to is specifically designed to give them all of the answers." Quite true. I don't have all the answers, nor do I want them. It's been my experience thus far in my pursuit of understanding my chosen Christian faith that each answer I get brings with it a brand new set of questions, thereby eradicating any dillusion I might have that I know all the answers. Christianity teaches that humans don't have all the answers, and I submit here that any "Christian" claiming to have all the answers is worshipping an idol. "If they are really brainwashed they are looking for Satan behind every tree, in every corner or in any configuration. The classic closed loop .....and it is a good one to be sure." Yes, this is a scary thing, as they should be looking in their own hearts for Satan. Christianity as I understand it is a faith that begins within the self, radiating outward. Our job as Christians is not to "expose Satan." Thinking we can, if you are a Christian and believe what you are supposed to believe, that's God's job. We have our own jobs to do here: "Love the lord your God with all your heart.../Love your neighbor as yourself." To the Christian, these two commandments that begin with the self will keep Satan at bay, no matter what tree he's hiding behind. I may not agree with your conclusions or your opinions, but you are certainly entitled to them. I only hope that you don't base your opinions on misinformed actions, however well intended they may be.
posted by
Gheeghee
on January 31, 2005 at 9:19 AM
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Proceeding with reprogramming, Gomedome, thanks! Voyager9940
posted by
Voyager9940
on January 31, 2005 at 8:54 AM
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