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Decshak
Men can be very foolish about that sort of thing
posted by
beachbelle
on
March 16, 2005
at
2:08 PM
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I've had correspondence with men here who had thought I was a man.
They said that the name, Decshak, sounded like a man's name. After I informed them that I am a woman, their enthusiasm for what I was writing seemed to fade.
posted by
_Decshak
on
March 7, 2005
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4:37 AM
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A Norseman
Folding clothes is a pre-occupation I see. It is not one of my gifts either and I iron only when absolutely necessary. In fact so low is it in my priority and so quick to hang clothes that it took me six months after I moved to buy an iron and ironing board. I can mow but it's been a while since I did. In my house some of the work is divided according to skill - which means that my husband gets more work because he has a more diverse range of talents and strengths - but much of it is according to need and who is around. Sometimes we ignore chores and each do our writing but we allow that.
So I digressed too.
I think I have noticed that some people don't value the opinions of others at all and I agree that much is predictable and this applies to many men too.
I think that it can make a difference if people grew up with siblings of the opposite sex and how the family responded to each.
Thanks for your great comment. It entertained me.
posted by
beachbelle
on
February 1, 2005
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8:30 AM
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Beachbell...
Let me begin by saying that I thought this was a great post. You asked some great questions here. I do agree with ARGUS in regard to our respective "hardwiring" but there is more to it than that. It's true, I regard women much of the time as an almost completely separate species because of our obvious differences in how we think and process information, yet at the same time I try very hard to overcome that tendancy with my intellect. I revere the women in my world, I don't think they are "less" than men in any way, only different. If I were in a relationship I suspect we would divide the work according to our individual talents and strengths. I happen to be MUCH better at mowing the lawn and building things than I am at folding clothes...in fact. I will never fold clothes...except for socks. I like rolling socks into those little balls. Currently the clothes I own that require folding are either wrinkled or they go to the cleaners, they are good folders over there. I'm sorry for digressing, back to your question. I think here on blogit it may be a tendancy of some men to not be as concerned with the opinions of women because on some topics a womans response is predictable in general, there are exceptions to every rule though. In other cases, to be frank...men just don't care what women think about certain issues because they don't identify with women. They want to gage their opinions with the opinions of their male peers based on similar criteria and considerations. I don't believe I am one of these guys you understand...I am merely speculating in an attempt to find a logical answer to your question. It did not come naturally, but I think I have learned to value the opinions of women rather than just find them interesting.
posted by
A_Norseman
on
January 31, 2005
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8:59 PM
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Wiley, I mean Anthony
You have always been very kind to me and I shall always value your friendship - it's yes, it's the truth.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 31, 2005
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8:30 PM
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Beachbelle
I took my time to think on this one.
All I can say is that my Joyce was a woman of superior intellect to my own and I had the privelege of sharing love with her.
My respect for her and her professional life as an educator, changed the way I am as a person.
When she died I set up a bursary in her name that goes on in perpetuity.
I think that speaks to my feelings on the issues your blog addresses.
I also want you to know before you leave here, I would also set up a bursary in your name if you were mine.
You are a very unique and talented lady and I salute you my frind.
posted by
WileyJohn
on
January 31, 2005
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8:03 PM
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Oh Whammie, you are such a great friend! Thank you so much for this!! A far too emotional VOYAGER9940
posted by
Voyager9940
on
January 31, 2005
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3:54 AM
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Voyager,
What a lovely comment! 
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 31, 2005
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3:51 AM
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Dear Beachbelle, I rarely heard better then this!! THANK YOU!! VOYAGER9940
posted by
Voyager9940
on
January 31, 2005
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3:33 AM
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My dear Whammie, I'm sorry for my third language, certain expressions and so aren't always easy for me to translate. English is a relatively easy language but also considering that there is a difference between American and British, ...you know now a little of my struggle. Thank you for appreciating my efforts in this.
Anyway, I wish to thank you for this very flattering remark. There is not one single word in it that isn't the truth. One of my highest values in life is RESPECT, what I give to others shall always be returned. Oh sure, I can make jokes and laughs about women, but also about men AND always trying to make my remarks non abusive or insulting. I believe that each individual has its own story, its own fragile character and principles and it is my goal to always adapt and improvise on that. How else can one really know the other person or learn its needs and values? How else can you reach the treausure that everybody carries inside them? There is so much beauty and value in us, people, but how rarely is that noticed or even allowed to show?
I'm not a fighter in public, I don't crawl upon a stand to shout the highest and the loudest word. But inside, I know my fight and I'm so proud of it. I fight silently for the people that deserve it, for them who also deserve a chance to be appreciated but not getting it. I was raised between 4 elder sisters, can you imagine what I had to endure? And still, I don't care because of that respect, and my neverending hunger to learn about the other person.
I thank you for being so sincere with your thoughts about me, and I feel proud to call you Whammie and Beachbelle my friends.
A happy VOYAGER9940
posted by
Voyager9940
on
January 31, 2005
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3:32 AM
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How does that sound Voyager?
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 31, 2005
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3:02 AM
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Whamenator thanks
I love making analogies using everyday stuff
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 31, 2005
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3:01 AM
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VOYAGER,
Since English is not your first or second, or third.... language, I will try to say the statement a different way.
VOYAGER is a man that appreciates a woman's external beauty, but he still respects her and what she has to say. He does not reduce women to objects and also thinks they are valuable for their intellect.
I know ours can be a difficult language, and you do very well!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 31, 2005
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2:58 AM
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BB, I went back and reread the comments, and saw Ciel's.
Yes, those are good words!
And I love the underwear analogy!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 31, 2005
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2:54 AM
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Whamenator
I don't know if your saw Ciel's comment way back when but she describes the differences not between gender but people. And yes culture and generatonal differences have an impact and sometimes we have to overlook things as we can't change people easily. Re your hiding you brainpower ... it is like wearing underwear, you can obscure something but you don't hide everything ;-)
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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3:49 PM
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Thanks for the compliment Whammie! I read it 7,3 times and still don't get all, but hey... I tried, didn't I?? LOL! A curieus VOYAGER9940
posted by
Voyager9940
on
January 30, 2005
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3:42 PM
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BTW, beachebelle,
Thank you for the last comment, and I consider it to be a compliment!
But don't tell anyone that I have a brain, or you will blow my cover! 
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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3:30 PM
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Moondawg makes an excellent point!
This is not only a generational issue but also a cultural issue, and beyond that a sub-cultural issue. It truly does depend upon what avenue you walk down and who lives there.
There are cultures where it is disrespectful to look someone in the eye and others where it is disrespectful not to. Arab men hate having to talk to a woman in authority and many hispanics and blacks and rednecks feel it is their right to keep thier women in check.
Socialization and the culture of the individuals involved, along with the intellect and Life experience, play a huge role.
For instance, can you imaging our VOYAGER reducing a woman to a gender, even as he might appreciate her loveliness? I cannot!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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3:26 PM
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Maryx
As I said this post had more questions than answers. It has kept me so busy I had no time to post..
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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3:17 PM
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Moondawg
I think respect is earned, courtesy is essential, and condescension sends the wrong message. But I think that there can be confusion as often anything academic is slated as being condescending.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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3:15 PM
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Hi Beachbelle,
It is a rare post that generates comments for more than a couple hours and this one is still going from last night. You definitely hit a hot button. Yep, I've had less time to post, but I like to drop by and see what's going on.
posted by
Blanche.
on
January 30, 2005
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3:12 PM
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Whamenator
I think you are interesting because you have chosen to bring to the fore some things that most people repress. With that comes the risk of alienating some people but that probably doesn't matter too much as those people are not your people anyway. Interesting!
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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3:10 PM
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Some of it is
upbringing. Older men were brought up to have lots of respect for women and to treat them in a gentlemanly manner. For me this respect includes what women have to say about any issue. I don't like people that are condecending to anyone whether it's female or male or we're not sure which.
posted by
Moondawg
on
January 30, 2005
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3:05 PM
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Good heavens, beachebelle!
What does my conditioning reveal about me? (Besides the fact that I thoroughly love sex....) LOL
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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3:02 PM
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word.smith
I think it is unconscious mainly through conditioning. I think at times we all speak in ways we are not aware of and what it reveals about us.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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2:53 PM
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Thinking about this, it has occured to me that
some men don't realize that this is what they do. As strange as it sounds, there are men who cannot argue with a woman of above average intelligence. Somehow they feel that her intelligence threatens their masculinity. I don't know how.
posted by
word.smith
on
January 30, 2005
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2:45 PM
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Whamenator
I imagine you usually have the last word ;-)
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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2:43 PM
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beachbelle, I put sexuality right there on the table......
Last night, my partner got in a discussion over the proper pronunciation of cunnilingus. Cletus actually looked it up in the dictionary! Cletus is Black and a lot of Black men are purported not to.
My partner said the pronunciation was irrelevant, and the important question was did he or didn't he?! He said he did not. He kept telling me, "Shut up, Whammie!"
So I say, "I suppose that means you don't expect her to suck your dick then either?"
I asked him if he will read the definition to us.
As we were going out on the road, in front of all of the guys in the office, and of course the one Black female that cannot stand me, I told him, "You don't know what you're missing! There is nothing sweeter than my sweet honey nectar!"
I had the room rolling, except for the one decisive glare!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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2:31 PM
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Whamenator
They feel threatened and they don't approve of you. They think they know you of course but they don't
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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2:11 PM
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beachbelle,
again you illuminate a reality of mine: so many women carry contempt for me!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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2:08 PM
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Whamenator
More fool any man who does not use his mind to figure you out ;-)
I think often it is women who think worse of other women who are successful and confident.
And I think there is a case for not worrying about guys who can't see past a head of hair and a pair of breasts
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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1:54 PM
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Littlemspickles
There were so many that I had no time to write
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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1:44 PM
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beachbelle -
well it seems you got your fair share of decent length comments to this post!
posted by
littlemspickles
on
January 30, 2005
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1:35 PM
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beachbelle........
Without a doubt, a strong woman is considered a bitch, whereas a strong man is considered strong and outspoken and confident.
What you said in your post illuminated strongly for me why I have mastered the art of playing the flake. The men fawn over me and treat me wonderfully.
This is true: when I changed my hair color sort of gradually from brownish to platinum probably 15 years ago, men began to treat me better. With less respect, in a way~~~the FIF as to what I have to say, but fabulously at the same time.
I don't think they mean any real disrespect by it. It has to do with the socialization process, and it is all that they know and they don't even realize they are doing it. Just the same as I learned to mimic a Dumb Blonde instinctively as a way to get over, so much so that it is now just instinct and second nature as to when it is my best strategy.
It is kewl though, because when a guy is a dick, I just wait for my moment and then pounce on the jugular!
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on
January 30, 2005
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12:39 PM
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Frankenkitty
I suppose I am always surprised when people respond to me abbout "bitching" and such as I don't think about people like that.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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11:53 AM
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JohnMcNab
I know what you mean about female chauvanism. I have never been one of those women who spends their life discussing men's shortcomings .. there are better things to talk about. It is like Ciel said below ... it is more about people and their qualities rather than gender differences
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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11:51 AM
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Complaints by women are not
given equal importance by men. Men respond with, "well, you're always bitching". But then, if a man was married to a man, the same relationship would develop and one character would develop dominance over the other. I am the breadwinner, and very difficult to dominate. I read a book and this woman actually wrote: "a man hates nothing more than a poor immitation of himself". So what is she saying? That all women should allow themselves to be dominated in fear of being a poor immitation of a man? What year is this?!? Men are like packs of dogs, and domination is a way for the man to attempt to control his environment. I will not submit, but at times I will not argue in attempt to manipulate the situation in my favor. Brains are always better than brawn, and if a man doesn't know that he is asking for troube when dealing with me.
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on
January 30, 2005
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7:13 AM
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beachbelle
Male chauvinism embarrasses me especially when I am the guilty party. There is a lot of female chauvinism in the real world. When in mixed company, men are deemed to be pointless and are the butt of many more chauvinistic asides than are women.
posted by
johnmacnab
on
January 30, 2005
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5:56 AM
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Justsouno
Thanks - although I am sure you could attract an audience for this topic too
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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3:05 AM
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Ciel
I raised this topic for discussion but I must say ...........I have to agree with you completely.
As I said to someone earlier - some women are us just as disrespectful of other women as a chauvanistic male.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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2:40 AM
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David1spirit.
The word "yapping" is not chauvanistic but it seemed like a good example of how some men might address a woman differently than they would address a man.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 30, 2005
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2:38 AM
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After years trying to sort the legitimate differences between men &women,
I have finally concluded that many of the apparent
gender differences are better considered differences between
people.
posted by
Ciel
on
January 29, 2005
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10:42 PM
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lady of shalott
Sometimes lawyers and their like need to be reminded who is paying their bill
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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10:17 PM
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Barnabee. I just spotted your funny comment among the half-page reponses
Interesting that you see it
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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10:15 PM
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Exstud,
It is an accummulation of observations over time spent here although some times examples jump up at me of sexism. I am glad you overcame your "laziness". I think I need to be a little more lazy as responding to correspondences such as this post receive takes a lot of energy and time. This subject is ripe for generalities and yet in truth most of us (there goes another generality) are capable of contradictory thoughts about such things. For example we want something when it serves us and our causes well.
I am not sure that women don't mind a fast-paced environment because it seems common that women are multi-skilled and have to use their time well (another generality).
You said: "of course, none of these generalities is justified unless one precedes them with "most" or "a disproportionate number of";." (What does a stickler do with that?. I say, have you noticed how often I use "most"?
It is interesting how you describe your mom as the "bad guy". This is the role assigned to me - reluctantly I might add.
Perhaps those woman who could beat the crap out of you are too busy doing what they have to do. No, I somehow don't see that happening to you. You have your views but you also have the ability to consider other views. If only more people did.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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8:49 PM
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Mary x
Good to see you again. You haven't so posted much lately. I agree that some women play both sides and then cry foul but I expect that most men pose similar conudrums depending on the circumstances. For example men in the locker room with other men may be quite different creatures from how they are at home.
As I said to Kelli - I don't believe anyone who claims to be a new man. The real ones are just themselves
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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8:33 PM
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writersjourney
It is a global phenomenon that more women blog than men. Maybe it's becaause they don't have the same access to traditional outlets for writing.. I don't know. That should not be the case but I worked at a few newspapers where men writers always outnumbered woman.
What's difficult about posts with more ? than answers is keeping pace with the volume of correspondence but seeing as I asked ...
And no I don't recall you giving me one of those brief answers but then you are right that it's no point to reiterate a comment in support of a view. Thanks for your remarks about my posts.... that is what it's all about
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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8:13 PM
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Talion. "Thanks for your thoughts"
No just kidding. I didn't call it MBS but yes I was thinking along the lines of macho bullshit. I remember a rather crude equivalent my old coach/ mentor (he was a 70+ year old man) told me which I always think of in those situations.
Yes, I am certainly not looking for people to step to my defence on that count and I agree that some attempts at assisting "damsels-in-distress" can be patronizing. In helping others, I think if the motive to offer help is meant that's great but if help is given to show how great the guy is well that's different.
Talion, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all model for how to run a home or a marriage. I don't think that the earnings or division of labor is the point - it is a side issue although an important one. (I am curious - is your wife good at delegating?)
At my place we are unstructured in our duties - we both do most things and it is according to need and time available. The exception is that we are organized where the kids are concerned.
I don't know if you are a chauvanist or not - perhaps there is a little part in everyone - after all some women are disparaging of other women too - but at least you know you can get off your ass and do something.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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8:02 PM
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Original Influence
The FIF is alive and well. It is not the kind of human interaction you want teachers to be passing on to your children. If it is bad perhaps it should be pointed out ...I wish you well on that (lol)
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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7:17 PM
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Strickgold
I think that when your colleagues' attitudes changed was the moment you acquired power. But I think that even power does not always do it.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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7:12 PM
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Kelli
I am inclined to be suspicious of anyone who describes themselves as a "new man". It is like taking on characteristics as a fashion accessory. The men who truly fit the definition don't even think about it and are unaware that they are
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
at
7:10 PM
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Hmmm, how about this....
the teachers at our school only cringe when the dads come in to complain...the moms...they treat them like second class nothings...
posted by
Original_Influence
on
January 29, 2005
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7:06 PM
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Scriber
I do agree with you
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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7:05 PM
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Beachbelle,
You raise a good point, and it was interesting to note the responses that you got. Actually, I'm with Kelli on this. I've met some of the "sensitive" new-age guys (Alan Alda clones), and some I've met are scary: wolves in sheep's clothing, who do more damage than the obvious macho guys, by playing mind games and being cruel and weak. However, we women are not innocent little lambs either in the gender issues: some of us play both sides against the middle then cry foul when things turn rough.
Right now, my life resembles more like Talion's description (without the money), because I'm not working and my guy is. When he was off work, he did more of the housework, but he prefers it when I cook. However, he does listen when I talk, hears me and acknowledges when I make a point, changes his attitude and behavior when he feels it's called for and I try to do the same. But that's love, not Blogit, war or office politics, where it's a jungle out here.
posted by
Blanche.
on
January 29, 2005
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5:31 PM
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I read all of the previous comments, which I usually don't do, but I overcame my laziness because this is an issue that I have not seen addressed on Blogit since I became a member last April. I'm glad you brought it up. I haven't noticed any blatant sexism, but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. The difficulty is that some generalities are justified and even feminists invoke them: women are more sensitive and less competitive; men are more interested in establishing whom is in charge.
I have even heard some feminists argue that women process information differently so they need a more nurturing, less fast-paced and dog-eat-dog environment in which to thrive (this is traditional liberal condescension even if it has a grain of truth). Of course, none of these generalities is justified unless one precedes them with "most" or "a disproportionate number of"; it cannot be said that all men are preoccupied with establishing hierarchy or that all women are more sensitive than competitive. In any case, I think it's OK to acknowledge common differences between the sexes as long as we qualify that assertion by reminding ourselves that none of these differences imply the superiority of one sex.
For my part, I consider myself as enlightened as any man can expect to be. Maybe I'm delusional, but I was raised in environments, home, school and work, in which women were mostly in charge; my mom was the "bad guy" while my dad was the more fun parent; most of my teachers were women; my first boss was a woman. As I became interested in politics I got used to seeing women in positions of power -- in Congress, in business, etc. I do not as far as I can tell assume, even subconsciously, that any woman I encounter is inferior in any way except perhaps in physical strength (and even so about half the women out there could beat the crap out of me).
posted by
Dyl_Pickle
on
January 29, 2005
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5:15 PM
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Glad you agree.
posted by
scriber
on
January 29, 2005
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3:38 PM
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Just kidding.
I think you're right. Although it's odd and I had not noticed it before. Now I'm thinking.... hmmmm...my head hurts.
barnabee
posted by
barnabee
on
January 29, 2005
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3:34 PM
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beachbelle
Thanks for your post.
barnabee
posted by
barnabee
on
January 29, 2005
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3:33 PM
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beach
I think this happens everywhere..........We are currently dealing with a lawyer and even though I said things exactly the same, he only understood when my husband told him. I find that instant I use my "big girl" voice men totally tune me out. I think it reminds them of when their mothers used to yap at them.
posted by
ladyofshalott
on
January 29, 2005
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2:53 PM
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JJwilddog
Good points. Gender discrimination is alive and well in most of the world's most respected organizations and bodies. Of course if you try and discuss it they will point to varios initiatives and say how enlightened they are but there are many indicators.
Why don't you do a post linked to your studies? it could be interesting.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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12:15 PM
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Thank you Rachelanna, Cassandra
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:50 AM
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Tigerprincess
I agree.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:48 AM
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Ariala
I did I just caught it. Thanks for catching that, I was in goof mode.
posted by
Justi
on
January 29, 2005
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11:44 AM
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Beachbelle
Sorry, I meant Beachbelle and wrote Ariala. I am my usual self off in lala land. Please excuse me.
posted by
Justi
on
January 29, 2005
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11:43 AM
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Justsouno, I think you mean Beachbelle ;-)
posted by
Ariala
on
January 29, 2005
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11:41 AM
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Ariala
Absolutely! I think it is so blatant in so many, not all. I have to ask is Mancho a New Potato Chip? I am so glad you brought this up, had I no one would have read it. Maybe some of them will. Thanks.
posted by
Justi
on
January 29, 2005
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11:40 AM
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Thanks Symphony
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:32 AM
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Billy. I notice the "because I said so" approach to political subjects here
It amazes me how well some of these things do here. People should admit at least that they are only presenting their opinion instead of trying to pass it off as fact. Of course I realize that I notice this stuff more.
I agree women are more "supportive" in comments.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:31 AM
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Ariala
It's good that you have what you want. I suspect many women realize too late
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:22 AM
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Chris2303, why do all vote for it? I wonder
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:20 AM
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Chris2303
Well yes, when it comes to politics arrogance rules.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:19 AM
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ARGUS
I suppose us humans can only be grateful that we get to choose. Yes I have longed observed how men talk to women they imagine sex with as opposed they don't for whatever reason - be it to do with power or age.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:15 AM
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Renigade3
Yes I agree there is another story as you say
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:08 AM
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Renigade3
I think that in some it is very ingrained and because they rarely stray outsided of their circle there is no awareness. So occasionally it will be put on - an act - but usually not.
posted by
beachbelle
on
January 29, 2005
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11:07 AM
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Most of my comments are to women, and sometimes I will comment long
and sometimes short, depending on the situation, my time, and so forth. But in general I suppose I would comment more to women then man. You are probably right, men have a tendency to think they know more than women on politics and business, I think.
posted by
scriber
on
January 29, 2005
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11:05 AM
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About the chauvanistic comments--I consider the source. Some men
I know just make these comments in fun, some are serious. I reply based on the motive... And yes, I have noticed that men respond much differently to wome here than men. However, I believe some women here provoke it (on a regular basis)--which is a whole other story...
posted by
Renigade
on
January 29, 2005
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9:28 AM
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BB, the lot of the intelligent woman has never been easy.
Biologically speaking, the name of the game is 'species survival' (SS). Millions of years of evolution have shaped men's (and women's) genes, hormones, and thus their behavior to serve that end. Unlike woman, man helps SS by spreading his seed as widely as possible. That's why he often responds to her (unless she is old, unattractive, or in an obviously superior position to him) as a potential sexual partner, regardless of what she said or wrote.
Women do NOT respond to men in the same way because of THEIR hardwiring ----SS would not benefit thereby.
"New" men are merely being politically correct. Biological realities are neither good nor bad; they just are. They should not disgust or embarras anyone.
posted by
ARGUS
on
January 29, 2005
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8:55 AM
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I am married to a "new man..." chauvanistic ones scare me.
I've been with my hubby 16 years and he is definitely not "one" of them!
posted by
Ariala
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January 29, 2005
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5:49 AM
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Beachbelle, I think response is subject dependent. Men tend to dominate
the political posts here and also provide the most well thought out, "fact and figure" answers. I admit that I don't post good comments on politcal posts because I tend to just read it, remember what I've read or watched lately about the topic, then blurt out what I think with no back-up other than "because I said so". Most of the women do this too. Just an observation.
In other posts I don't see the chauvanism. I see women trying to be more "supportive" in comments while men tend to comment on the issues in the post. I don't articulate this well.
posted by
FreeManWalking
on
January 29, 2005
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4:19 AM
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Hmmm makes one think.
great post
posted by
_Symphony_
on
January 29, 2005
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3:47 AM
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beachbelle
Nyah...when it comes to politics I don't think it's just women who get brushed aside with an obnoxious remark. It's typical of political banter to adopt a superior, all knowing attitude...even away from Blogit, as you know.
posted by
chris2303
on
January 29, 2005
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3:29 AM
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Beach, to be honest, I prefer talking to women way more than I do with men.
It seems that women are more willing to go into the deeper areas of subjects without fear that it somehow 'undermines' their 'gender status'. What do I mean? For example, in politics, women are much more willing to look at the human aspect of political discourse, whereas men tend to be more 'realistic' i.e. manly...total bore when someone cuts out the human side...
Also, on many other issues, women tend to be more aware of their own inner workings and willing to bring them to the open. Men tend to want to hide that, I guess because they feel vulnerable... which makes it boring to talk to them about anything personal, if their not willing to involve their person...
But yes, I agree with the main points of your article, men tend to be more chauvinistic in the written word, as it is exemplified here on Blogit...
posted by
void-is
on
January 29, 2005
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2:37 AM
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Well BB,
I barely know where to start on a comment here. I recently researched the subject thoroughly, mostly through WWW searches, for a writing class. The things I found were mind boggling, but there was one thing that became quite clear: the male/female issue has every characteristic of good, old fashioned, discrimination.
Gender discrimination does not show any differences at all from any of the other forms of discrimination. Because of the roughly 50/50 population division of gender, there is a much greater volume of discrimination, but the characteristics are identical.
The problem with any discrimination is that people think that they ''have overcome'' for one reason or another. They haven't, and when they think they have, they have failed. Overcoming discrimination is a day to day, continuous process that can never be put aside.
I won't go into the details of the typical characteristics of discrimination--they are far to numerous to elaborate here.
Have I overcome discrimination? No, but I have it well trained---when it sees me comin' it knows it better run. JJ
posted by
Jack_Flash
on
January 29, 2005
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2:28 AM
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Blogging and Gender
Actually, no need to appologize about having more questions than answers. I think that if we are honest, that's what it comes down to -- more questions than answers. And I think the most interesting posts send us away with more questions, rather than the illusion of having established final "answers".
Concerning your post; gee I hope I haven't been one of the men who have treated you this way in any of my responses to your comments. I have felt you have introduced very interesting ideas to discussions that I have seen you in. I think people are more likely to write long responses to those with whom they disagree -- afterall, what more is there to say to those who confirm what you are already thinking than "thank you"?
The one thing that I have noticed, during my short stint on Blogit so far, is that there are far more women posting than men. I was rather surprised to see that. I was wondering whether or not it was an indication that women are more likely to be reflective...
posted by
writersjourney
on
January 29, 2005
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1:31 AM
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beachbelle
By the way, the last line of my comment sounds rather defensive. That was not my intention.
posted by
Talion
on
January 29, 2005
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1:17 AM
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beachbelle
As far as the political post commenting example goes, some cases could very well be FIF, but most are probably MBS (macho bullshit). The code of MBS states there are certain ways you treat women. You don't treat them harshly, even if you feel they "deserve" it. Why? Because to do so is the ultimate sign of weakness, the epitome of not picking on someone your own size. Lacking the flair to say what they want, they don't really say anything, hence the "thanks for your thoughts" type of response. Now when another man steps up, well, that's a challenge, and all challenges must be met with aggression. The men must be seperated from the boys, there can only be one alpha male. Hence the half-page comments proving who's boss. It's a good old fashioned pissing contest, plain and simple.
Is there chauvinism here? Yes. Have I noticed it? Of course. Does it bother me? Not a bit. In this day and age, a woman doesn't have to put up with it. In this medium, she has a keyboard just like I do and can type her own responses. If she doesn't stand up for herself, then I'll let her lay there. The decision to cry foul or suffer in silence is hers and hers alone. Rushing to the defense of every "damsel in distress" is in itself chauvinistic. It implies that a man must help her because she can't help herself. I'll have no part of that.
In my household, my wife makes more than I do. I'm not threatened in the least because it's "our" money and with it we can buy a hell of a lot more than with "my" earnings alone. She handles the finances. Hell, I haven't signed a check since 2001. The housework isn't split down the middle, however. She does all the cooking and the laundry and most of the other chores. Her work schedule is flexible, with sometimes up to four days off during a week. During this time, she does most of the housework. I chip in, but admittingly, not as much as I should. It's not because it's her lot in life to serve me, but because she's the only other one here. I don't crack a whip and expect her to be Edith Bunker, running across the room to meet me at the door with a cold beer when I get home. If it gets done, it gets done. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I don't worry about it. If I want to wear my favorite shirt, but she hasn't washed it yet, I wear something else. If she doesn't feel like cooking, then we go out. She's volunteered to do these things, so she should do them on her own terms without any input from me. If I don't like it, I can always get off my ass and do it myself.
Am I chauvinistic? You tell me.
posted by
Talion
on
January 29, 2005
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12:24 AM
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Spot on! Men are just born chauvanistic I think.
posted by
Ca88andra
on
January 28, 2005
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11:44 PM
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Actually
There is still a world out there where nothing is more threatening than a smart young woman. Its in those instances where you have to fight a little harder, and stand a little tougher, adn come out stronger and better than those against you.
posted by
tigerprincess
on
January 28, 2005
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11:03 PM
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Mmmm-hmm...
You're right on with this...
posted by
RachelAnna
on
January 28, 2005
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9:40 PM
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The word "yapping" is chauvanistic ?????
Chauvanist huh!
posted by
David1Spirit
on
January 28, 2005
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9:38 PM
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I can relate
I worked in an all male office, and was treated this way until I started outselling everyone else. Then I was thought of differently and earned the respect of my peers
posted by
StrickGold
on
January 28, 2005
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9:29 PM
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Beach, oh! A new man exists alright and it is scary as hell! I just
run as fast as I can in the opposite direction of them and watch as somehow once again, they appear.
posted by
Kelli
on
January 28, 2005
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9:25 PM
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