Go to A Distant Drum of the Coming Revolution
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- Go to Ted Kennedy deserves to be censured and charged with treason
Wow, thanks for reading, everyone!
Painter, it would be far more accurate to say that, if we are in a third world war, it began September 11th, 2001, if not in prior terror attacks. To say it started with Iraq is like saying World War II started at Guadalcanal and the American landings in north Africa. The war on terror will likely last as long as you say. But I assure you that, if we don’t fight as long as it takes to eliminate terror, terrorists will fight – if you can call their particular brand of cowardice and treachery “fighting” – as long as it takes to destroy us. I’m sure the isolationists of circa 1941 were as pessimistic about America’s ability to endure in World War II as you are now.
Have you asked the troops themselves if they are demoralized? Seems to me they scored a huge MISSION ACCOMPLISHED on the 30th with the completion of the first round of elections in Iraq. Quite demoralizing, I’m sure.
And this kind of criticism was a good thing to have happen in that it exposes the radical left’s folly for what it is. Kennedy, Kerry and company have a huge amount of face-saving to do now that they’ve been proven completely wrong.
posted by
WriterofLight
on January 31, 2005 at 6:15 PM
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EHp
what you say may contain some truth.
But I do NOT think T. Kennedy is of your mind or motive.
posted by
calmcantey75
on January 31, 2005 at 6:08 PM
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the president IS a liar
defeatism? -- I don't think criticizing the Iraq action -- it is no war -- not formally declared -- no police action like Korea -- just the U.S. invading a far inferior country.
defeatism is the Bush administration leading us into this in the first place where we will have to deal with this no matter what adminstration for decades to come -- it is the draining of our manpower -- taking fathers away from their children -- employees away from necessary jobs -- it is what has happened and what has happened is that we now are in truly what can be described as the beginning of WORLD WAR III for sure -- a war that will last the entire 21st Century and involve the U.S. in numerous locations around the world -- and one that will make us so weak that we will not be able to sustain it in the end.
The sad thing is that we would not be able to initiate a similar action anywhere.
there is no demoralization there -- the troops are already demoralized -- we have so few available -- they are promised one thing -- oging hom at a certain time, then told another -- they have to stay 6 months more -- the Abu Graib incident is another -- pretty obvious that there were orders from above -- but only the lowest level people will be prosecuted and convicted - like a lot of stuff -- never gets above the lowest level
our govment is doing more to demoralize our troops than any criticismcould ever do --
the criticism probably is the best thing to happen
we have to take an entirely different world view than this administration has or we will lose the world
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 31, 2005 at 5:59 AM
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Be Happy To Bring Ol' Teddy Up On Charges...
...in the case of Mary Jo Kopekne. But, first, in the interest of being thorough, let's bring up the entire Bush Family on charges of treason, drug trafficking, money laundering and conspiracy to commit all of the above, and more. Hell, let's get Kissinger and Clinton while we're at it, too. And that pussy willow Kerry for being terminally cautious.
Then, sure, by all means, let's hang that fat arsed coward from the nearest yardarm. If he was worth anything he'd have been shot in the head by now, too.
But since there is obviously no such thing as justice in this world (it's, apparently, "just us,"), perhaps we can petition for mercy.
Mercy erases the top 2 scumbuckets in this administration. Perhaps then the combat wounded at Walter Reed won't have to spend their own money to buy food for themselves....
I wonder if the paraplegics at WR have to pay extra to order in....
posted by
Volaar
on January 30, 2005 at 7:33 PM
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I went to the first link Damon provided about Bush's supposed "lies" and found an immature website that couldn't even figure out what actually entails a lie. Every comment that they cited as lies started out by saying something like "the intelligence I have been given..." or "British intelligence says....". If there is evidence that the intelligence said nothing of the sort then I challenge Damon to produce this smoking gun. Until then all we have is a bunch of unfounded charges.
As for the people nice and "passive" people Damon referred to as proposing lynching of another human being....What can I say about liberals that I haven't already said a hundred times. Thanks for the reinforcement chief.
posted by
jethro
on January 30, 2005 at 7:03 PM
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come on EHP
questioining the government is one thing. In a rational, sane fashion.
but repeatadly calling the president a liar, preaching defeatism, using Cronkite terminology ( quagmire), it all adds up to demorilizing our military and our country while we are at war is another.
the man can say what he wants, but he needs to be more responsible with the timing of his remarks and a lot less indulgent in his bitterness and ideology.
posted by
calmcantey75
on January 30, 2005 at 1:10 PM
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sarooster
where you been?
on the moon I guess.
so treason now is questioning the government?
I've heard of other countries that have used such a definition.
Let's see . . .
let's if we can name a few.
or do you know where I'm going with this?
If per the conservatives' opinions, the government should not be challenged or questioned, then it would very well appear that they are advocating the dissolution of our republic (which conservatives have been dismantling since Richard Nixon and are now speeding up the process) and its constitution.
Like the present admininstration, it would appear that they support an oligarchy composed of corporate America -- hey wait a minute -- isn't that just about what we have right now?
No one has a say except the big corporations.
And you'd better not complain.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 30, 2005 at 1:01 PM
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Sarooster...
...while I understand you passion for the respect issue, I simply can't oblige.
This is not an American world that he's fucking up. This is MY world. This is OUR world.
The office of US president used to command respect, but then we saw how wealth and connections and some serious flauting of the rule of law enables a man like Bush to walk into it, unencombered by any such thing as a mandate from the people.
As for Bush the man he, like anyone else, has to earn the respect of others. He has earned nothing but the incredulity and hatred of many millions of people. (I was in a pub on Friday and watched a passionate debate develop around me about US foreign policy. By the end, some of the nicest, most passive people I know were saying that if Bush walked in right there and then, they'd have happily lynched him and strung him up to the nearest tree. Or shot him, had someone produced a gun. You have no idea how high feelings are running outside of your borders, Sarooster. And they are fed my information that is largely inaccessible to the American public.
So I'll start showing some respect to the US president when you impeach this one, and replace him with someone who deserves repect. Until then, I'll use my freedom of speech at every opportunity to shine a light on the dark murkiness of the Bush 'administration".
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 30, 2005 at 3:36 AM
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Damon,
I am going to weigh back in. You need to show the President of the United States the respect that is due not only him but the office. You are free to share your opinion with the world and I am grateful that we have the freedom to do that in our countries. You need to comment on the situation and save the personal attacks.
posted by
sarooster
on January 29, 2005 at 3:34 PM
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On the Lying Issue...
...I know you're just pulling my todger about this. i know you know as well as i do that you have a lying greaseball in the White House.
But just on the off-chance that you don't, here's some stuff.
Lies About Iraq This is a bit out of date, but the quotes are good, and the reality hasn;'t changed much.
More Lies About IraqThis is far more comprehensive and up to date.
9/11 LiesJust to show he's lied way beyond just Iraq. This one is wide ranging, with references and quotes you can check for yourselves.
Have a nice day.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 29, 2005 at 9:58 AM
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American Politics...
...is not my option???
This coming from the land that likes to think it invented free speech?? Surely not.
Listen, bub. I write plenty about my own country, and I am critical of much that goes on here. Like the brief time Blair and Blunkett tappy-lapped after Bush by locking up terror suspects here indefinitely, without charge or trial, just like in Gittmo. Happily, the highest court in the land here ruled that was illegal, immoral and unjust (surprise, surprise) and have forced them into re-thinking that particular piece of human-rights-violating legislation. Unfortunately, the US Supreme Court is now stuffed with Bush's yes-men, so such a challenge is less likely there.
But US politics does, sadly, concern me. It concerns everyone on the planet. Because the US is the only super power (currently run, alas, by a super-moron) some of the decisions made there effect everyone everywhere.
The decision to launch a war against an adjective, for example.
The decision to go to war when the weapons inspectors (remember them?) were saying there were no WMDs.
The decision to roll back twenty years of environmental legislation.
the decision to go into denial over climate change.
The decision to be the only country in the world to refuse to sign up to Kyoto.
The decision to continue to burn a disproprtionate amount of the Earth's natural resources in pursuit of some dream or other.
The decision to torture some prisoners, and lock others up for over two years without charge or trial.
The decision to continue sucking up to the Saudis (for their dollars) and forgive them their sins (for providing most of the 9/11 attackers).
I could go on and on.
You need to wake up to the reality that I am not going to butt out of US politics, and I am not going to stop asking difficult questions. And I assume you'll continue to avoid them.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 29, 2005 at 9:48 AM
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Damon
You need a new pair of glasses. A great dose of discernment and a gigantic portion of common sense. Then you need to use these to express your points of view about your own country. American politics is not your option since you do not vote here, pay taxes here why don't you not run off so at the mouth here?
posted by
Justi
on January 29, 2005 at 9:15 AM
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writer so?
Who listens to Ted Kennedy any more. You are wordy enough to be a woman.
posted by
Justi
on January 29, 2005 at 9:11 AM
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This is a very good post, a little long but good, I disagree on some points
but first I will always support the troops even if I don't agree with Bush and second I want to see the elections go on and then really see what occurs next.
posted by
scoop
on January 29, 2005 at 9:04 AM
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Good Post
You could write that Bush says likes eggs and next thing you know Damon would be ranting on about how much cholesterol they have. The whole "Bush lied" thing is just so unbelievably contrary to all available evidence that it only serves to make such people look even worse than they already do. If they stoop to the point of saying the election was rigged(in thousands of different counties, hundreds of different systems, many of them run completely by Democrats particularily in the heavily populated cities) then you might as well sign them up for adult day care.
Nearly the entire free world DID see WMD in Iraq as a danger hence the intelligence reports from every possible agency including Britain's that said he had them. That there were people marching in places as far off as Australia is of no real consequence as there are people everywhere who can't resist the draw of self-congratulation when it catches them. The fact that the United Nations drew up resolutions citing WMD would tell the open-minded person that a good part of the "free-world" DID see their WMD as a danger.
As for the Geneva Conventions applying to terrorists? Any literate person can read the conventions and the specifics of who is covered. Damon knows this to be true, yet would prefer to opine in the realm of cosmic justice not reality.
posted by
jethro
on January 29, 2005 at 8:30 AM
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What amazes me is how blind people are, to make comments like "BUSH LIED". WHat a bunch of fools you are.
So to those who continue to beat the fictional drum of "Bush lied" please refer to the congressional report, a BIPARTISIAN report that found unanomousily that Bush acted in good faith on the information given and that he did not lie.
Given, that KOMMRADE Ted was privy to that report, his druken, foolish slobbering about Bush lying only serves to undermine our position in the world. That would be America.
While I think treason, while amusing, is a bit much, I do think he should be thrown out of congress, removed from power and sent home.
Ted, simply doesn't give a damn about America, he only cares about Ted.
Good post.
posted by
Entrepreneur_Maker
on January 29, 2005 at 7:50 AM
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I Nearly Skipped...
...this post. It was Saroosters comment that led me to read it in full.
Interesting.
Whe you say we are winning, I'm curious to know how you reach that conclusion. Because it's definitely NOT what I'm reading from guys who are there, on the ground. It's not what the BBC reports. It's not what our military leaders are saying. So I'm wondering what sources you have that these guys can't access?
When you say "90% of Iraq is secure", I see the manipulating hand of Fox News right there!
If you truly think that American prestige is stronger than it's been in years, you must only mean within America itself. Beyond your borders, America's stock has plummeted in the eyes of the world. So yes, the Senator was right to say that American respect and credibility have reached all-time lows.
As I posted myself earlier, I see the elction as a positive step. however, that does not mitigate the treasonous lying that Bush resorted to in order to illegally invade Iraq. And the election is not one you or I would recognise. No politicians are out canvasing as it's too damn dangerous (even in the 90% of Iraq that is apparently secure!). And no one is seeing the TV ads as no one has power for more than a couple of hours a day and, in those hours, they have better things to do than watch TV.
"The entire free world saw WMDs as a danger in Iraq?" Where WERE you in the lead-up to the war?? Where WERE you when over a million people marched in London, nearly a million in Sydney, massive marches in Paris, Moscow, Berlin, Rio, and in cities throughout America, decrying the rush to war, and ridiculing the WMD claims? How come WE all knew way back then that there were no WMDs, and yet the "President" and the US "military intelligence" (a conflict in terms if ever there was one) have only recently reached the same conclusion? Awkward question, that one.
If Bush was truly under no illusions that this would be quick, what the Hell was he doing and saying on the deck of that aircraft carrier last May, dressed up like like a prick in a jumpsuit??
You talk eloquently about duty, and leadership in wartime. But you're making the common mistake of seeing this as 'just another war'. It's not. It's an illegal invasion by a rogue state that just happens, for now at least, to be a superpower. there is no duty, no honour, none of the stuff that was around in WWII, for example. (There is in the miltary ranks, of course, but the 'leadership' is as rotten and rank as the worst African dictatorship). Neocon attempts to liken any other war to the current farce in Iraq and the mythical "War on Terror" are just insulting.
You say the infrastructure was neglected under Saddam. That may be true, but at least it worked. People had power, water, hospitals, cooking fuel. But now the Americans have bombed the shit out of all of that so that Halliburton can get in on no-bid contracts, thus lining the pockets of ex-VP Cheney and his croneys. The fact that Iraqis have no power so they can't see any election stuff on TV is hardly a consideration to Bush.
You think Abu Ghraib was like "college frat hazing stunts"? Thedn you have a very, very poor knowledge of what went on there, and the deep psychological effects it had on the victims. Again, I see the hand of Fox News here.
Finally, it's close to being hilarious that you've been convinced (probably by Faux news or your Faux president) that the Geneva Conventions don't apply to terrorists. That's like saying the prisoners in Gittmo aren't really prisoners; that torture in Abu Ghraib isn't really torture; that unprovoked invasion isn't really illegal; that frigging one election, possibly two, isn't really an impeachable offence.
When the world doesn't fit the reality you want it to, simply redefine the language.
Have a nice day.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 29, 2005 at 7:42 AM
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This post is a masterpiece. It should be required reading by
everyone. You should e-mail it to the Senator's office. he is committing treason. He's aiding an abetting the enemy around the world. He needs to be called on it each and every time he does so. Thanks for the post.
posted by
sarooster
on January 29, 2005 at 5:04 AM
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