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pk -- thanks for your input.
I bet you have some stories to tell about your time in China, eh?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 4, 2006 at 10:06 AM
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Been there...Seen that...
I worked in China a couple years ago...and the stories of persecution were so real. Some of the new believers we worked with were persecuted by their families when we left the country. But, I tutor Chinese people here in the States in English, and none of them seemed to believe me when I told them Christians are hurt in China, even killed. They just couldn't believe it.
posted by
pkcricket
on June 3, 2006 at 8:14 PM
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Thanks for visiting again, Justso
and thanks for your concern. Aach, I've just gotten a bit tired of blogit, not to mention busy and everything else. You'll probably discover soon enough that I have posted another blog. Enjoy!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 9, 2005 at 8:35 PM
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JanesO
Everybody must be ill. I am missing your posts. Hope you are well. Be blessed
posted by
Justi
on February 9, 2005 at 6:39 PM
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Thanks PastorB -- somebody's gotta at least attempt to . . .
fill your shoes, you know. But it's awfully tough!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 3, 2005 at 10:37 AM
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gee Janes, another BANGERANG aimed at YC4H!!
posted by
PastorB
on February 3, 2005 at 8:38 AM
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TF you are so right to be MAD!
I disagreed with the govt in giving to China most favored trading status. It's as if we've chosen to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed -- both with political and religious prisoners and torture. The dollar has become more important than life itself, or so it would seem. Thanks for your comments!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 2, 2005 at 8:10 PM
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I'm so mad I can't spell mad! (typo)
posted by
ThomasFranklin
on February 2, 2005 at 5:35 PM
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And the good US of A trades with China. China has favorable trade status. They also trade in "body parts" if you are in one of their jails-take a convicts heart. They leave baby girls out on the street to die because of a one child law and tax law. I'm made at my government.
posted by
ThomasFranklin
on February 2, 2005 at 5:35 PM
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Forgive my language, YC4H
but what you've written is just a crock of sh_t and so ridiculous I'm not sure why I'm even commenting. I do find it rather ironic, though, that so many sludge feeding creepers are coming out to comment on this rather simple post. It seems to have hit some sort of nerve with some of the (what appear to be) intolerant and hateful anti-Christian bloggers. For that matter, you're sounding quite a bit like t-rat or gomedome -- even your writing style. Is there a double life you're living that you'd like to share with the rest of us?
But regarding the Christians in China vying for power, that notion is insane. Go to www.persecution.org and find out how the Christians in China and elsewhere are really conducting themselves.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 9:22 PM
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Perhaps...
...and I'm thinking out loud here, if you alleged Christians actually understood your own Bible and didn't go around informing everyone that only one, "special," human rose from the dead and walked around on the Earth after he was torn apart by Roman soldiers, maybe, just maybe, there might be a more receptive audience in just about every country in the world.
It's about attraction, gang, not promotion.
What kind of cruel, inhumane, ridiculous, addle-headed beast coerces people into believing what couldn't possibly be true? I'll bet it's the antichrist. In some contexts brainwashing children into believing the ridiculous is considered rape. Rape is about power, not love. Not even lust but simply one human being attempting to control and abuse another.
That's what the communist Chinese see in all of this religiosity and bravado. And the self-righteous and the sanctimonious are upset by the tactics of the Chinese because, in a pinch, you alleged Christians would do the same things that they do to keep their people in line. Your religion isn't about Christianity and the freedom of "Good News" -- it is now, and always has been, about POWER. Political, economic and organizational POWER.
Rats recognize and smell one another well in advance of any attempt at taking over territory. The Chinese smell rats because they, just like you, are prone to killing and eating their own flesh and blood.
posted by
Volaar
on February 1, 2005 at 5:48 PM
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Why thanks Brenda!
I hate to see your time winding down here, but know it's for the good of your family and your ministry and all your many other job concerns. God bless!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 12:35 PM
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now see there, I've left something valuable in your hands upon
my leaving here-the term "bangerang"! Use it often and think of me when you do!
posted by
PastorB
on February 1, 2005 at 12:21 PM
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Some Bangerang Info for all you Bangeranging and
wonderful, concerned bloggers! Here's that web site you mentioned, Pastor B -- www.persecution.org. And thanks, Justso, for your comments. I fear you're right about t-rat. What a miserable person.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 10:06 AM
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Justso, BANGERANG!
posted by
PastorB
on February 1, 2005 at 9:50 AM
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JanesO
You have not said anything good until t-rat takes a stab at you. He is an angry, self-aggrandized psychopath. I have never known or hope to know anyone who can spew such venom when only a small splash of muddy water would have doused the situation. I cannot imagine him in the military. I can only see him having a young warrior's hands and legs cut off in the public square for a minor infraction of scuffing his spit shine. He is a terrible man. A tare-a plant for sure. He is chief apple polisher for Satan himself.
posted by
Justi
on February 1, 2005 at 9:45 AM
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Janes, maybe if you have a second you could post the link to
VOM and let others see for themselves too?
posted by
PastorB
on February 1, 2005 at 9:23 AM
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Thanks, Renigade,
for stopping by. Actually, it's tons worse than portrayed in that little article -- unlike what t-rat seems to think -- and something we should make ourselves aware of.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 9:18 AM
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Thanks so much, PastorB
for your nice words. I hadn't seen Hook and was not familiar with the concept of "Bangeranging." The comments of t-rat were so ridiculous, I just had to respond. Have a great week!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 9:17 AM
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WOW--I never knew. Very enlightening post.
posted by
Renigade
on February 1, 2005 at 8:07 AM
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JanesO, did you ever see the movie "Hook" with Robin Williams as
Peter Pan? During one scene they have a "war of words", the point for one to say something to the other that "out does" the previous one. If they have a good come back, the rest shout, 'BANGERANG'!
So, to you JanesO, I say 'BANGERANG'!!!
posted by
PastorB
on February 1, 2005 at 8:06 AM
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Wow T-rat, gee, now I really know how you feel about Christians.
I wasn't quite sure, so I'm glad you clarified that for me. Your hostility and rage virtually glows in the dark. If it makes you feel any better, I don't live in the suburbs. I live in the city, right by the hospital where I work. And I have my hand on the pulse of a variety of siginificant problems pertaining particularly to those people who cannot afford medical care, or must choose between food or medications, or who have no one to assist in their care or. . . the list is long. So in other words, your snarling asinine comment was most inappropriate.
But having said that, I would also state that persecution of Christians continues to be a significant problem worldwide, and one which obviously you've chosen to ignore. Your statement has only broadcast for all to see your tremendous ignorance of the subject.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 1, 2005 at 7:54 AM
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t_rat, it's one thing to "realize the real problems", which I know for a
fact JanesO does, but it's another to roll up your sleeves and do something about those problems, so I ask you t_rat, are you doing anything about the problems or do you just "realize" them?
posted by
PastorB
on January 31, 2005 at 8:40 PM
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Get over yourself and your self-righteous persecution complex. You
live in America, a country that kisses the ass of idiots like yourself. Sure there are tyrant in the world, and sometimes christians are the target, but frankly, persecution of fundamentalist christians is low on the totem pole of world attrocities. Get out of your suburb and realize some real problems.
posted by
t_rat
on January 31, 2005 at 8:21 PM
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Thanks PastorB for barging in.
I am grateful! Writer's journey has consistently chosen to turn a blind eye to MLK's foibles and antics, for whatever reason. God knows our hearts (MLK's, mine, his, etc) though, and that's what is most important. But to compare my "persecution" of MLK's record with the persecution of Christians in China is so ludicrous I can't help but virtually roll on the floor gagging at such insipid insults. He has audacity for sure, and not a whole lot of respect from me for that particular comment.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 29, 2005 at 7:47 PM
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unwarrented attacks on MLK?? If I recall she shared information
that is open for public access on the Internet. And anyone who does a little research into historical figures can see that information. Seems to be MLK brought that on himself.
Sorry Janes, to barge in, but that was ludicrous.
posted by
PastorB
on January 29, 2005 at 1:21 PM
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What about when Christians reject Christian efforts for social change?
Jane, wouldn't you agree that Christians persecute themselves, as you did in your post of unwarranted attacks on Martin Luther King? Just wondering.....
posted by
writersjourney
on January 29, 2005 at 12:28 PM
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You're right about that, Tiger Princess!
China, Sudan, North Korea, Saudi Arabia. . . .
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 29, 2005 at 8:29 AM
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China has the worst human rights record in the world, and this only further serves that fact. That is so terrible, and so unbeliveibly senseless. THey must have a really weak government if its so threatened by women who pass out Bibles.
posted by
tigerprincess
on January 28, 2005 at 11:53 PM
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Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!! I go to work for 8 hours and my blog explodes!
Perhaps I should leave more often? Thanks one and all for visiting and for commenting. I do enjoy a good debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You all have left some very thought provoking comments, and I really enjoyed catching up. Thank you!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 28, 2005 at 9:22 PM
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Justsouno, I agree that when new religions move into a new area, as the
muslims are doing now in America, there is bound to be a lot of friction. There is no question of that.
posted by
void-is
on January 28, 2005 at 1:29 PM
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Jackie, I was not refering to the Crusades. I was refering to forced
conversions. But you are right, the crusades were centuries ago. On the other hand, the 'Freedom and Democracy' that the neocons preach, are a very western and Christian idea. If I'm not mistaken, they are now being imposed on a part of the world that is Muslim by a (mainly) Christian army...
posted by
void-is
on January 28, 2005 at 1:27 PM
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Justso: when you're right, you're right! good job!
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 1:24 PM
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Void
I do so agree on that note. The Catholic church let the knights of England who could not read or write and if they had been able to do so they had no Bible. If you know the Bible both Old and New Testaments you know we have had access to it only a few hundreds of years. Also you know that things done in the name of the Lord is not of the Lord. We are not born Christians and "the church" is only those people who are living by the Word of the Bible. If you are not then you are not a Christian no matter what you say. Many cults, denominations etc., call themselves Christians and are not. I do not know enough about Islam. I am certainly willing to learn. I am not willing to give up my religion in my country just because it offends someone. Freedom of Religion means I am free to worship as I please you can do the same but you take your offenses back where you came from. My only offense is non Christians are trying to deny me my religious practices which were here first.
posted by
Justi
on January 28, 2005 at 1:18 PM
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im tired of hearing about the crusades
it was hundreds of years ago. Let it go already. The truth is only the muslims are perpetrating violence in the name of their religion these days. NOT Christians. They have not for a long time.
posted by
calmcantey75
on January 28, 2005 at 1:17 PM
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Justsouno and PastorB...
actualy, the Muslim faith does not say that it must convert others by the sword, unless they are not people of the 'book'. That means that Jews and Christians are allowed to continue with their worship. If what you say Justsouno was true, then all Greeks and Serbs and Bulgarians would have been forcibly converted to Islam since they were under Muslim rule for over 400 years...
On the other hand, certain Christians over the years have used the sword to convert many people on all continents. This was the fate that befell many in the Americas, Asia and Africa.
But to be fair, I don't think that this is a 'Christian' trait. I, for one, know the word of Christ, and have much respect for it. This knowledge tells me that what many people have done in the name of Christ is very unchristian, just as what Osama Bin Laden has done is very unmuslim...
posted by
void-is
on January 28, 2005 at 1:07 PM
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Damon rarely pays attention to response comments left for him. Justso,
you are exactly right! We can take "God" out of the public square, the schools, the currency etc., but we had better not go messing with other "religions". How is that being tolerant? How is that being "fair"?
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 1:04 PM
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Void
I agree that is annoying. People show up on my porch-Jehovah's Witness' or Mormans. See this is one of the great problems of Christian Religion. These people are not Christians according to the Holy Bible. I ask them to leave. My problem Void is that Islam around the world is killing people for their religion. It may irritate me but it does me no bodily or mental harm for these people to knock on my door.
posted by
Justi
on January 28, 2005 at 1:03 PM
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void is--I didn't know you were in Greece?! I wanna go there!
that's pretty much what I said in my comment here to David some time ago. Many people are persecuted for various reasons. But that was getting off track of the post content.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 12:57 PM
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Damon
Yes I can. America was a Christian Nation, with freedom of religion. Meaning it was majority Christian. Muslims in this incident came into America where they should have freedom of religion. They asked to have their prayer calls over this speaker that sounded over that whole area of the city which was populated mostly by Christians even though they built a Mosque there. The people who lived there said it woke them early in the morning. They were offended. Okay my problem is none of this, it is that the original religion of the community was Christian and the city forbade them a Christimas tree in the town square and allowed another religion to announce prayers that disturbed them. There is no tolorence there at all. You are using that premis to say Christianity was not the majority in China, Muslims were not the majority in this community. Also Christian mandate is to tell the story of Jesus, not to convert by the sword but the Muslim is: convert them, they must leave their faith and live by ours or die by the sword. Where has there ever been tolorence in Islam?
posted by
Justi
on January 28, 2005 at 12:57 PM
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Can we all agree that a lot of religions and even those that do not adhere
to a religion are persecuted all around the world? I, for one, who worships mother earth, find myself constantly badgered by Christians here in Greece. They badger me about having taken the wrong path, etc. When I got my ID, at a local police station a few years back, I was not allowed to state that I was a pagan. They just filled in the blank with 'Christian Orthodox', whether I liked it or not.
Many Sundays I've been woken up by people on my door asking me to pray with them, etc. etc...
Maybe this does not count as persecution, but personally, I would be very gratefull if these people felt the constraint of the law, so that they would cease and desist from such actions...am I asking too much?...or does persecution count only when it is directed at Christians?
posted by
void-is
on January 28, 2005 at 12:51 PM
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maybe we all need to take a step back and re-read JanesO post
again so that we are all on the same page? The point (that I at least) am getting from what she stated here has nothing to do with who has a right to "preach" or spread the gospel--which ever one that may be. The point is that Christians are being persecuted daily around the world, yet so many seem to be under the impression that this is just our "imaginations" or that we are making a mountain out of a mole hill about it or that somehow we deserve it or were "asking for it". Jane, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my estimation and I'm sorry for taking over your comments section!
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 12:40 PM
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Hmmm...if I'm nor mistaken, Muslims were told by Allah to go around
and spread their word too... Now, who's right, or, has more of a right to do so? And in which way?
posted by
void-is
on January 28, 2005 at 12:32 PM
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But Damon, I think we may be straying off course of the topic
and gist of the post.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 12:27 PM
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Damon, I'm not sure why you question missionary work?
Was what Christ Himself spoke when He was on earth widely accepted where He went teaching? Were the disciples widely accepted? But does that mean then that they should have kept silent? The Scripture says that we are to spread the Gospel to ALL mankind. If we lived on the premise of our sharing the gospel not being accepted, we'd never speak and therefore not be following a command and mission given to us by God.
As far as one "religion" being tolerated over another that points to the whole problem. And it's not just in the "religious" realm. Look at what we tolerate in our media or television for example.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 12:25 PM
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I'm Getting...
...mixed messages.
On the one hand, it is terrible that Christians are persecuted in China (though I have to question the whole premise of missionary work, and the wisdom of shouting about a belief in a land where it's clearly a minority one).
Then, on the other hand, Justsouno writes "Muslims come here and in one city ... [t]hey requested of the city counsel permission to have their loud prayer calls and it wakes the whole neighborhood who is not muslim".
So, in the first instance, it's terrible that Christians are persecuted and silenced in a largely Buddhist country, but in the second, it's fine that Muslims are persecuted and silenced in an (apparently) largely Christian country.
Can anyone sort this out for me?
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 28, 2005 at 12:07 PM
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PastorB
I must have heard your prayers, or God heard them and sent me here. I am reading and talking to both! 
I don't always agree, but I will give a listen. It's called "tolerance". Something I know you love! 
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 11:47 AM
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By the way
The Muslims request was overwhelmingly shot down, twice!
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 11:44 AM
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OH MY! Justsouno has spoken very wise words here--that doesn't surprise
me though. My prayer in leaving Blogit would be that many of you would read the words of these two gals; Justso & JanesO and consider them carefully. I'm so proud of these two! It warms my heart to know that they will continue to spread the truth and Gods' word here!
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 11:44 AM
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Justsouno
Yes, I know all about that city. I was born there, it's called Hamtramck. Lived there up until 7 years ago.
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 11:41 AM
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David 1
Nothing is incidental. The wars in Africa now are over the millions of Christian being killed by muslims. The Phillipine Islands are choked with muslim groups persecuting Christians. Muslims come here and in one city in Michigan (don't hold me to the state) it is one mid-western state. They requested of the city counsel permission to have their loud prayer calls and it wakes the whole neighborhood who is not muslim and they refused to allow Christmas tree in the town square, or prayer in school. Some of our schools refuse the wearing of the cross but you can wear that bedsheet over yourself. That kind of selective tolorence is no tolorence at all. It is demonic. Forgive my spelling not my message.
posted by
Justi
on January 28, 2005 at 11:37 AM
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Empty headed painter
I am offended by violence, nudity and many things that go on in our country on prime time tv. I make the decision not to watch it. I shall never stick a bible up under your nose. It is not my loss if you reject Christ; I have spoken to you that is all I need do. Anyone who does not respect my rights to take away what offends me and expects that what offends them should be taken away knows nothing about justice, they have no sense of tolorence and they are self centered and unteachable. If you know anyone who fits that description you may as well leave them alone.
posted by
Justi
on January 28, 2005 at 11:29 AM
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empty handed, true enough that all Christians are aware of the fact
that what they say or the Gospel they try to share may not be widely received by all--Jesus warned us of that fact--He wasn't widely received either. But it is still the calling that God has placed on many of us to continue to share the Gospel no matter what. But we are not responsible for the reaction to our actions. Just like here on Blogit; there are a handful of us bold Christians who have shared the gospel and were not received well, but that doesn't mean we are supposed to shut-up. Many times the message that Christians share isn't received well because it brings conviction to the receiver.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 10:21 AM
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they took the chance
i would suppose they knew that might happen
one thing
if they knew that they might be arrested then they were courageous -- like the early apostles.
but then again -- if they could have spread the word some other way than to upset the people around them --
i have problems with such methods -- the great majority of Americans have problems with such methods -- runing around and handing out material like that -- next time you do it check out the reactions and the looks on people's faces -- many turn away.
also i think you need licenses around here to do such
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 28, 2005 at 10:13 AM
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David, ah...so I see my evil plan worked!!! LOL
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 9:47 AM
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PastorB
OK, that seals it!
If you want to talk about horses and turtles and birds, I am in. But I have had sporadic nightmares since the whole Jackelope conversation last week..............! 
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 9:38 AM
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David, we could argue this until the jackelopes come home, but
suffice it to say that Christians are persecuted all around the world based soley on the fact that they are Christian. The publication; Voice of the Martyr, that JanesO points to, has even suffered persecution just for the simple fact that they point out these atrocities--which in itself points to the fact that there are those in society who would rather keep that issue "hush hush".
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 9:33 AM
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And I agreed with that
I also stated that being Christian was incidental; meaning it happens to everyone who steps into that country and tries to go against the so called "establishment"! Even it's own students, for that matter!
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 9:26 AM
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David, the post and the comment was about the persecution
in China, was it not? The Christian presence in China is a much stronger presence than the Jewish presence. Of course Jews have been persecuted and I was in no way detracting from that fact. Muslims are persecuted, African Americans are persecuted, women are persecuted and on and on--but I believe the point or gist of JanesO post was that so many tend to think that the Christian sector is exaggerating the fact that we are persecuted and this article - as well as many others- serves as proof that this is no exaggeration.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 9:20 AM
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Hi Guys, Thanks for your comments!
David, I would whole heartedly agree that Jews are being persecuted simply because they are Jewish. It's happening in France, other parts of Europe, terrorist acts against Jews in Israel and elsewhere, etc. I also agree with Pastor B that it's happening on a much, much larger scale against Christians. Whether that's because there are far more of us than there are Jews . . . and Christianity is rapidly spreading throughout the developing world . . . or because it was predicted in the Bible that there would be persecution against Christians -- the why of persecution is up for interpretation by many. The reason I posted that notice, though, is for those who say it ain't happening and quityerwhinin'. It is happening. . . and on a much grander scale than any of us can imagine. Thanks for stopping by!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 28, 2005 at 9:13 AM
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PastorB
Yes I know. And Jews aren't, right? I have to disagree. Although I know the Christian missionaries have had plenty to deal with over the last 2000 years; it absolutely pales in comparison to the strife, terror, discrimination, etc. that the Jews have had to deal with throughout history. You know this too I am sure!
I am not in any way trying to make light of any religions' struggles; but really, nobody gets it worse than Jews do.
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 28, 2005 at 9:11 AM
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David, actually, that's not true. The Christian presence there is much
more of a threat to them.
The VOM is an excellent periodical which brings to light much of the abuse, persecution and injustice played out world wide against the Christian sector. Not to mention the fact that we have Christians right here in America being persecuted for their faith.
posted by
PastorB
on January 28, 2005 at 8:58 AM
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That is sad for sure.
But in that country, it could have happened to anyone from any religion or denomination. That fact that they were Christian was just incidental. If they were Jewish, same thing.
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 27, 2005 at 9:22 PM
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