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- Go to Another day ,,, another bible thumper tries to push their beliefs on me
I will write a post on this
One thing I have noticed it that a good deal of believers seem to have no clue what respect really is. They get obedience and respect very much confused. The show obedience to their beliefs, but not respect and are unable to show respect in general because of this. They see worshiping and bowing down as being respectful, when all it is really is being a good lapdog. Expect a post on this from me some time today.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 20, 2005 at 8:44 AM
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gomedome
Amen to all of that. No amount of logic will ever replace years of brainwashing.
posted by
chris2303
on January 20, 2005 at 4:44 AM
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Good Post
posted by
justAcarpenter
on January 19, 2005 at 9:17 PM
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when Yeshua said to Simon, the little pebble
Petras, something like that, conceived by medievals as "Peter, the Rock" -- ha!
first -- he was talking to the entire assembly of disciples -- ok?
secondly, he was talking to all of us whose perceptions transcend the mundane
"I give to you keys to the kingdom of heaven (spiritual realms) -- what you close up and what you open up -- it is opened up in the spiritual realms
we have the keys -- we either open the doors to spiritual realms or we lock them up and refuse to enter -- and that is as valid as anything can be.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 19, 2005 at 2:40 PM
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gomedome, Good post,
A few thoughts...We ARE the self appointed gate keepers, but we only have the power to put OURSELVES in or out of that place beyond them, NOT anyone else.
Yes, Kelli, our children DO trust us that much. I think kids have a better shot at happiness if they believe, than if they don't.
I'm not sorry for you, gomedome, because i know that time makes fools of us all and i believe that YOU are seeking the Truth. That should always be enough.
posted by
pappy
on January 19, 2005 at 1:45 PM
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Kelli -- another good point
Vanity simply cannot be a part of this being's characteristics.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 11:12 AM
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Well, why would God care so much as to whether we believed or not if he believes in US? Then throw something he believes in away? We'll soon find out.
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 11:08 AM
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and that Kelli is the entire point, as you encapsulate in you closing lines
If there is any form of judgement day it can only be based on how one conducts themselves in this life.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 11:05 AM
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Gome, I can relate to all of what you said, and maybe I am simply a magical thinker but this magical thinking is magic for real in an odd sort of sense, at least for me. I'd rather think there is something than not think there is anything and this is simply a personal choice as I do not do well in thinking certain ways. I feel that you can be rest assured that should God BE, if God IS, then it will make no matter as to whether you believed or not. I feel that we are in death what we make in life. Stay happy!
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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You-look-fabulous -- good comeback
....
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 10:52 AM
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Kelli -- it is a given that most people do believe
Some are pre-disposed to it, some have found belief while others have just not looked further. By the same token non-believers fit certain profiles as well (if you can profile people's minds at all) I would call myself an athiest if not for a couple of niggling little things I cannot find any other explanation for ...yet.
One such thing came up in the research of resonant harmonics while the other came up in the near death testimonials of people that have crossed the threshold of being no longer alive and have returned to health. I'm not speaking of the relating of the experience of being drawn to a white light as they cross this threshold. To include this as any form of proof of an afterlife is merely ignorance because it is now easily explained by the human body's physical reaction, (specifically the optic nerve) to oxygen deprivation. I am speaking of out of body experiences when those returning to health relate things they cannot possibly know otherwise. One such example was a man who died on a gurney in a hospital emergency room. After an unlikely recovery he was able to relate the contents of a sticker on the upward side of a fan blade suspended 10 feet above his body.
The sticker was not visible from floor level. Now I do not put much stock in stories about this happened to so and so or whatever. The only reason I give credence to such a story are for the same reasons that the court systems accept a deathbed confession as being certifiable. None of this is enough to make me a believer but is enough to remove absolute certainty in non-belief. I am really only certain of one thing and it is admittedly only my opinion, regardless of the fact it is shared by many others. God, as man has constructed him with all of his human shortcomings does not exist, it is merely the wishful thinking of generations of people. If there is a higher form of life or a supreme being we are incapable of describing that entity, it is beyond us as mere mortals. However, if in fact and by some improbable odds this being does exist as traditionally depicted, I hold an absolute certainty that he will not penalize or punish me for using the brain he gave me.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 10:51 AM
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Oh well.
I guess that's why Jesus, Mohamed and Bhudda are famous and their followers generally are not.
posted by
TARZANA
on January 19, 2005 at 10:40 AM
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Gome, yes, tand to top it all off, I DO BELIEVE. I just do and I can't explain it any further than that. I don't; however, believe in the condemnation of non-believers. You cannot help what you believe and what you don't believe, not with or without factual evidence.
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 10:24 AM
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Kelli -- that is a real good point
and I can add to it as well. Extrapulating from this, it is not likely that if there is a God he would penalize or punish the doubters of his existence. The two main reasons being that first, as you describe he has offered nothing much in the way of evidence of his existence other than conclusions we are to draw from observation. Of course many fervant believers like to pile on so called proof which is a amalgam of wishful thinking and seeing things they want to see but for the most part we only have observation to work with.
Secondly, human shortcomings such as vanity, revenge and rage are just that, human frailties. One cannot say on one hand that a supreme being is all powerful, all knowing and all caring then suggest that he find himself subjected to very human characterisics by taking revenge on anyone that doubted his existence. Especially when it is supposedly in his power to remove all doubt.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 10:19 AM
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Would you expect your child to believe in you without ever in their lifetime presenting to them one shred of proof that you existed? Would you expect your child to believe in you by presenting ONE shred of proof in a lifetime of unknowing?
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 10:06 AM
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You-look-fabulous -- The wisdom you speak of seems to escape a large
number of people. Jesus for example, imparted such wisdom in his teachings, as did Mohamed and Bhudda to name a few. As soon as mankind got their hands on it the message was all but lost.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 10:01 AM
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Yes Gome, the rules and regulations get thrown out the window as the Rulers and Regulators take over.
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 9:58 AM
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Kelli -- I think I'm catching your drift
if you are saying that the traditions and trappings become more important than the message itself.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 9:57 AM
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RAME -- thta was a nice comment but I had to chuckle
when you said: "Sorry you are not a believer....." Why would you be sorry?
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 9:55 AM
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You make very good points!
You are so right about most of what you say. An all loving, all knowing God is non-denominational. All He asks is that we love Him. That means loving His creation and his creatures, great and small. If we truly love His creatures and His creation then we are loving Him. That's all He asks and that isn't so much. Good article. Sorry you are not a believer but to believe has to come from within. No one should try to force their religion on you or anyone else. When they do what that fellow did in your office and then what he did in the parking lot, they are not only being judgemental, but also hippocritical.
posted by
RAME
on January 19, 2005 at 9:42 AM
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Gome, it's a belief that becomes a truth so that there is no more believing going on and too much knowing. It's the develop of those who no longer have faith because they think they ARE the faith and they feel that all that they know is all there is to know. False Diety.
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 9:33 AM
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Yeah.
On the one hand, there are so many good things to be derived from listening to teachings of wisdom. I followed that path for a long time. But why do these people end up in the land of extremes from learning wisdom? There is nothing wise about being an obnoxious, extreme person who cannot be reasoned with ~ who insists that their Church has the only patent on correct dogma and interpretation, and all other "sinners" will miss out on heaven. In fact, each has their own heaven and place of reward. If Jesus turns out to be someone who shrugs you off, who wants to depend upon someone like that as the most and only important person in their whole life?
posted by
TARZANA
on January 19, 2005 at 9:32 AM
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Yep roofpig -- we've seen that right here on Blogit
I won't mention any names but you know what I'm talking about.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 9:26 AM
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Kelli -- I get it all of the time
and from a vast variety of people. Some of them being such that if they are going to heaven there shouldn't be a heaven. Self appointed gate keepers to the pearly gates is always good for a laugh.
posted by
gomedome
on January 19, 2005 at 9:24 AM
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gome - but you KNOW it's not them telling you this, it's really God. At least that's their excuse to keep pestering you about it.
posted by
roofpig
on January 19, 2005 at 9:04 AM
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All caring should be an infinite description. I agree. Not limiting in any way. Well, it's a hell of a thing when you are told you're not going to Heaven! Don't tell ME where I'M going! Very good post.
posted by
Kelli
on January 19, 2005 at 9:02 AM
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