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westwend -- you can add me to that list
I've always felt that more emphasis needs to be placed on the here and now.
posted by
gomedome
on January 14, 2005 at 7:16 PM
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there are a lot of us who agree (here on blogit)
that we all are already there if we only see it.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 14, 2005 at 3:18 PM
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there are a lot of us who agree (here on blogit)
that we all are already there if we only see it.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 14, 2005 at 3:18 PM
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Witchflower -- that is a really good point
Why would athiests want to go to heaven? The only answer I can think of is that heaven is an all encompassing word describing eternal bliss in the afterlife. Thereby it is self defined. If this state of being does in fact exist there has to be a place for non believers as well, whatever it may be called. I don't think it is simple enough to say that the place for non believers is hell. It is for some people mind you but this simplicity is rife with a lot more questions in itself.
posted by
gomedome
on January 14, 2005 at 10:12 AM
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Good post.
I like the way you translate religious tenets into terms we can all understand. I believe Martin Luther said something like, "Faith without good works is dead." Seems the way to Heaven would be a person who is sincere in being honest, caring, and strong, rather than one who gives lip service or follows a script that he/she is not invested in.
I'm curious why atheists would want to go to Heaven. If one doesn't believe or denies the existence of God, how could there be a Heaven? Heaven and Hell were once described to me as being in the presence or, or cast away from the presence of, God.
Heaven and Hell are Judeo-Christian concepts that don't necessarily apply to other forms of religious experience. One example would be Pagans, Wiccans, or whatever people who believe in the old, nature-based religions. No Hell, no devil, and a different concept entirely of Heaven. Just a thought. 
posted by
Witchflower
on January 14, 2005 at 9:54 AM
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pappy -- I don't know where you got the idea I ever said that
athiests were somehow better off. Yes our prisons are filled with people but as to whether or not their faith has let them all down, well I find that a stretch. Many have had society let them down, just as many are going to be there no matter what influences they have had as some are just born criminals. Now if you are combining contentions I put forth within the last two postings to re-write my words you may want to try re-reading it. I stated that non-believers have an easier time with tolerance of the beliefs of others because they do not have the emotional stake in a set of traditional beliefs that others may have. (They also have no choice as they are outnumbered dramatically by believers). This is one of the roots of intolerance but just one of the reasons. I also stated that my group of friends and associates is primarly made up of athiests and agnostics but not entirely. I followed this up by saying that no one can extrapulate the small cross section of people they know into a larger picture to draw conclusions. If you are using my joking with Kooka in this comment section to make your erroneous statement did you miss the fact the sentence is prefaced with the word "if"?
posted by
gomedome
on January 14, 2005 at 6:42 AM
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gomedome
Of course i don't KNOW any more than anybody else what's going to happen after we die, i only have some jumbled and incomplete beliefs, but i DO know something about respect. You keep pointing out, with good reason, the hypocrisy of so-called christians, but i'm not buying your talk of athiests being better off. Our prisons are full of people whose beliefs have let them down, that could provide no help to them in getting along in this world. Any religion, at its core, teaches the idea of respect, first for the implied creator, then hopefully for the reality of each other. We ARE accountable for our actions, but not for our unrealized ideas.
posted by
pappy
on January 14, 2005 at 4:52 AM
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Well, you said that apparently no one alive knows where heaven is. I think that maybe it's the opposite. All that are truly "alive" know where heaven is. (I'm saying "Heaven" but that statement is a bit overrated, I am meaning Heaven in terms of describing that place inside of us that knows peace). Sorry!
posted by
Kelli
on January 13, 2005 at 10:56 PM
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Okay Kelli -- you lost me here
what do you mean by truly alive?
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 10:44 PM
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sheilake -- that is what I did with my kids as well
They are both believers and I would never try to discourage them in that belief but I did make a point of exposing them to other world religions. With the theme that all beliefs are equally legitimate. I would feel a failure as a parent if my kids grew up being intolerant of the beliefs of others. I feel this exposure promotes a better understanding and a broader perspective in them of others.
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 10:42 PM
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Actually not to contradict you but it would seem to me that only the ones that are truly alive actually know. (I'm not saying that I'M truly alive, just an observation! Nice post, very informative!)
posted by
Kelli
on January 13, 2005 at 9:43 PM
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This is great !!
Finally in one place, a succinct description. I'm printing this for my kids so they'll know what all the other kids are talking about. I'm serious. I don't know any of this stuff....
posted by
sheilake
on January 13, 2005 at 9:40 PM
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justAcarpenter -- I thought it was funny as well
I shoulda used it in the post.
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 9:20 PM
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kooka_lives -- if there is a heaven I think athiests use the slate system
as well. But judging by most of the athiests I know and if it is simply a measure of good deeds over bad, all of the non believers are going to be at the front of the line.
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 9:18 PM
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barnabee - That was my vision of Limbo as well
I specifically remember having nighmares about it when I was a kid.
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 9:12 PM
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corycc321 --- That's been mentioned to me before
maybe not with as many letters.
posted by
gomedome
on January 13, 2005 at 9:11 PM
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No
Really, really bad dudes come back as chicken, but they still fully understand the word “fried”.
Well…I thought it was funny.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on January 13, 2005 at 8:51 PM
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I got a question or two for you
How does an atheist get to Heaven? I think this is information the Christians are keeping hidden from us because they do not wish for us to be up there pointing out to them that there is no such place for all eternity.
I could see why Babies would be perfect for Limbo though. They would have a real easy time walking under the limbo stick. But would it not get very boring limboing for all eternity? Maybe the babies are having a non-stop luau. Those lucky little guys.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 13, 2005 at 7:23 PM
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Limbo
I always had this image of thousands of babies floating on their backs,asleep in a black void. Maybe that's what a Black Hole is? Oh, no, that's just my soul.
Good post.
barnabee
posted by
barnabee
on January 13, 2005 at 5:50 PM
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You'rrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeee goooooooooiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg to lleh.
posted by
corycc321
on January 13, 2005 at 4:59 PM
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