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I thank for your comment and the read.
I am not going to comment on it though. I have said all I have to say on the subject.
posted by
sarooster
on December 13, 2004 at 5:09 PM
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Why is the old men bringing up the rear ...
feel free to question the courage and determination of those in the line of fire? This would be a much safer world if soldiers didn't blindly follow their military commanders orders. Question authority! And don't be mad at those who have the balls to do what you were too timid to.
posted by
fwmystic
on December 13, 2004 at 2:59 PM
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How do you think the military works, Thomas.
If we had to save every soldier from having anything bad happen to them how would we have ever stormed the beaches at Normandy? You join the military to fight, kill or be killed! That is the ultimate goal of our fighting force. Now, I am a bit tired of having to tell all what I think of this. You know damn well as I do that is what the military is far. You fight and kill. You follow orders. That is all I would like to say on this subject. I have been attacked personally by others and I wish to stop this. I know the people who attacked me did so not with any malice, but with the intent of proving their point. You have been borderline on that score and I don't wish to have any cross words with anyone.
posted by
sarooster
on December 12, 2004 at 6:13 PM
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I would like to see you in China. You are probably correct, Rumsfeld does see it that way, disposable soldiers and all. I'd Like to see Rumsfeld in China too, Or maybe you and him could visit Mars.
posted by
ThomasWelch
on December 12, 2004 at 5:16 PM
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Shavonne and Scoop,
I am stating an opinion here and obviously your opinions differ widely from mine. That does not mean I am an idiot as you both think. I don't think the army worries about giving every piece of equipment needed to fight to every soldier. That ain't good! It is especially not good if you are the one doing the actual fighting. I don't think that is the ultimate goal of our military planners. They have acceptable losses they are willing to incur when going into battle. Maybe you don't accept those losses, but you are not in the military planning business. If we had thought like this about all our other wars we would have never fought them. Again, I am attacking the soldiers who refuse to do their duty or who question the authority. I just don't think any military can function such as that. I would like to see a soldier question authority in the Chinese army!
posted by
sarooster
on December 12, 2004 at 3:51 PM
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shavonne, I spent the day with 61 reservists
at their Christmas party. Last year this time they were in a "real war in Iraq" playing "real soldier" they said they would like to meet sarooster and "talk" to him. I think they want to show him how "real" reservist are.
posted by
scoop
on December 12, 2004 at 2:44 PM
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Everyone should question why soldiers are being sent to war without proper equipment.
One thing every national guard, reserve, and active duty soldier is taught in basic training is SURVIVAL-LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.
Survival is HAVING PROPER EQUIPMENT whether it's a gas mask, flack vest, rifle, or armored vehicle.
Survival is KNOWING HOW USE YOUR EQUIPMENT.
Survival is STAYING ALIVE.
If someone doesn't question the lack of equipment ,then there is a serious lack of concern for the fight and the ability to win.
And in regards to your comment about Reservists not being real soldiers, when the shit hits the fan, they are usually the FIRST to go to combat. And that's something recruiters won't tell potential recruits and something you obviously aren't aware of.
posted by
Shavonne
on December 12, 2004 at 2:37 PM
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Sarooster this is probably the craziest statement you have made yet.
"The military is not a democratic society. That is not good for the grunts in the deal. They pay the price. They bear the burden of bad decisions and bad planning."
Why must soldiers have to deal with bad planning and bad decisions, if that is the case you do not send them into battle. This was has changed since the beginning and was rushed into with bad planning, remember the President and his "Mission Accomplished" idiocy? This war has gone down hill ever since. Why? Bad leadership and bad planning. Underestimating the will of the Iraqis.
You are throwing a blanket over these reserve troops by standing on you statement. Yes one reserve unit questioned a transport assignment but if you follow up anything you will see they were right. Trucks were grounded and were not armored properly. And those troops received minimal punishment.
How about some of the troops that have gone to prison for murders they have committed are you going to throw the whole army in over a hand few of bad ones?
And because one reservists asks a good question no matter where it came from you say they are not real soldiers. This is still a ridiculous statement. How about when these reservist get killed, is that a real death? I still think you should have the balls to tell these soldiers this to their face and also talk to the families of those reservists who have died and tell them "Well you son wasn’t a real soldier".
You are still irresponsible for this comment.
posted by
scoop
on December 12, 2004 at 2:29 PM
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Thanks for the comment, pikcles.
No, that is not the only reason the war is not going well right now. Our military leaders did not plan for the insurgency we are seeing now. No one did or if they did they did not speak up until after the war was well started. There are a lot of reasons the war is not going good and none of them are good for our poor enlisted people.
posted by
sarooster
on December 12, 2004 at 1:53 PM
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Sarooster, there is a point to this post that I agree with. If you are a soldier or in another area of the military, you are trained to take orders. You must do as you are told and not question it because as you said, others's lives depend on it. You need to trust that others are doing their job so that your equipment is working and that you are looked out for as well. The army needs to be a well-oiled machine for it to work. I admire people who can put their life on the line for others - I know that I would be terrible in any situation of conflict because I would be one of the first to question why, how high, how far etc, instead of just getting the task done.
Whether or not this is the only reason why the war is going the way it is at the moment, I'm not sure. I am not on the side of the fence that sees war as the only answer but understand that sometimes it may be the only way you can be heard.
It's a tough one.
posted by
littlemspickles
on December 12, 2004 at 1:49 PM
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