Comments on These people are not "real" soldiers!!

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Shavonne,

I have no comment to make to you that will ever make you change your mind about me. If you feel you must hate me go ahead. All I did was write an opinion piece saying what I thought was going on. We have soldiers refusing duty at times and questioning authority. All I am saying is our military can't function like that. Has anyone thought that we might be having a hard time because some of our units are more worried about staying safe than fighting a war. War is terrible. As a soldier you have to follow orders and work with what you are given. You were in the military. I think you understand better than the rest of us that the army can't protect you from all that can happen to you in a war. They look at it from a different standpoint than common folk. They understand there will be losses and they are ready to accept that fact. The soldiers have to do the same and fight the war. I support the people fighting the war, but I also support the people in charge. Feel free to comment as you wish on my writing and please air your opinions. I am not going to try to change your mind about anything, but I will speak my piece from time to time.

posted by sarooster on December 12, 2004 at 1:15 PM | link to this | reply

You already know what I think about you.  It must suck to look at your own reflection in a mirror.  Shame on you. 

posted by Shavonne on December 12, 2004 at 1:05 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks Thomas!

I was only stating an opinion. You have every right to your views also. I don't want to change your mind though. I just wanted to write a piece on what I think is something that is not good for our military. I don't write many like that. I wish you would read some of my regular journal entries and other pieces to get a better idea of who I am and what I write about. Thanks for the comments. I look forward to writing with you again.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 9:20 PM | link to this | reply

I will never dishonor our soldiers for trying harder to stay alive. I wish to leave it at that with you. I don't think I will ever change your mind. I know you will never change my mind. Thank you and good evening.

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 9:16 PM | link to this | reply

Scoop,

Napoleon had plenty military experience! If we all fought like him......   I am not asking anyone to give me any credibility for my military judgement. If everyone fought a war like I would we would be referring to a lot of places in the past tense. All I am doing is stating an opinion as to what I think some of our soldiers are doing in Iraq. Instead of fighting they are complaining. I can't see how that could set well with a seasoned military man like yourself.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 9:14 PM | link to this | reply

Thomas,

We have fought many wars, battles and such in our great land over the years. I have not seen any of the Sec.'s of Defense or President's take up a position on the battlefield while serving in that capacity. Yet, no one seemed to complain about that. William Cohen did not lead the charge into Kosovo!

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 9:09 PM | link to this | reply

That is all I wanted to know, you have no military experience,

I just wanted the others here to see this, case closed. Your credibility to me on this subject as a vet and to all the other men and women who served is zero.

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 9:09 PM | link to this | reply

or his country

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 9:06 PM | link to this | reply

And if a leader won't do his duty, he's not much good to his troops.

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 9:05 PM | link to this | reply

Scoop,

I was not in the military and I don't much about military life. I know if a soldier won't do his duty or questions military authority he probably is not much good to his unit or his country.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 9:03 PM | link to this | reply

Thomas,

Those are good points you make, but if you don't want to put blind faith in someone surely don't join the army. That is the only way the army works. I see Donald Rumsfeld as someone who will pretty much tell you like it is. He will do as most others do and not tell us the truth when he wants to or feel he has to. I have no big problems with that. I just think our military only works when our soldiers do what they are told. If you question the authority I can't see you as being a real asset to the cause.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:57 PM | link to this | reply

Sarooster

I don’t Trust Mr. Rumsfeld at all. I guess that is the primary difference between you and I. Only a fool puts blind faith in people he does not even know when his life is on the line. When Mr. Rumsfeld goes to visit those in Iraq, look at the body guards and armor he has for himself. I work for myself. But if I had a boss and he were making stupid decision that were bound to get me killed, I’d say let him show me how its done first. If this were put to Mr. Rumsfeld this way you can be assured he would have all the armor your and your great great grandchildren’s tax dollars could buy.

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 8:50 PM | link to this | reply

So I will ask again, what branch of the service were you in sarooster

tell us, share your knowledge of your military life.

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 8:50 PM | link to this | reply

They do have a right, I was in the service, any marine or soldier

has a right to ask questions like that kid did no matter what, and it does not matter who asked that question, it was legit. You never refuse an order but you better ask questions. After almost two years these kids have inferior equipment and it is a sham, my kid was their and welded pieces together and that was last year and they still don't have the right equipment shame on us.

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 8:47 PM | link to this | reply

Scoop,

I will continue to say this. We have many fine soldiers who do their jobs wonderfully. We have some who think they have a right to question authority. These are not "real" soldiers. Most of our military personnel perform their jobs admirably, yet some don't. I think they do a disservice to our country when they do that.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:43 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks for your comment also, jackie_o.

I may have chosen a bad title for my post and it may have been too general. I am not going to go back and change it after the fact though. I stand by what I wrote. I know there have been solidiers who have balked at assignments, some have questioned tasks, and other things along those lines. These are the people I refer to as not being "real" soldiers. We have had many fine young people killed in this war and I am sure their deaths have been as a result of our military not having all the equipment needed to protect them. That is sad. I am not sure it is our military's job to give each soldier protection from all that can go wrong to him on the battlefied. I trust our leadership and I say a soldier must do his duty.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:40 PM | link to this | reply

sarooster why don't you go down to your local reserve center tomorrow

and tell these guys they are not "real soldiers" I think they would like to hear your views

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 8:39 PM | link to this | reply

And Sarooster what branch of service did you do your duty in?

Probably none right? Let others do the dirty work while you run your stupid mouth not knowing anything about the military.

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 8:36 PM | link to this | reply

Thomas,

You can't join the military and then start complaining about your situation. If I had to fight I would. I support our military leaders and our President and his advisers. I trust them to do the right thing.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:34 PM | link to this | reply

Sarooster

I think you have somehow brainwashed yourself. You are correct about one thing a soldier must fight. A dead soldier can’t do much of that. I’ll bet you would be one of the first to question our military leaders should you be sent over and over into the same hail of bullets and bombs without the proper equipment. These soldiers would like to do their duty. They know if they get killed they can’t do that.

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 8:27 PM | link to this | reply

sarooster you have expressed your opinion now allow me to express mine

i think you should change the title of this post because every minute you allow it to remain up you insult the researvists who have died in this war and you insult their families. Also your opinion on this is not based on a complete understanding of the stress and mental state of people not only in the military, but who are preparing to enter into combat. Honestly I dont know what source your opinion is based on other than what you hear in talk radio which is also not based on actual experience either. Sarooster we are in a time of war and emotions run very, very high for many people, just watch what you say and how you say it. Please.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 11, 2004 at 8:21 PM | link to this | reply

Rachel,

Thanks for the post. I knew I was going to rankle many people with the post and I seem to have done that. If I was too general I did not make myself very clear. I had a post earlier about the soldier who stood up and asked Rumsfeld the question about the armor. I know most of our soldiers are not like that. I am talking about the ones who complain openly, such as the bunch who refused a mission a while back. We can't fight like that. I made a generalization about soldiers and I apologize to all who have been offended. If a soldier does his job I have no problem with him. If he stands up and questions ( and it was not even his question) the Secretary of Defense then I have some issues with that. I don't stand up and question my boss at work. I wouldn't have a job long! Thanks for the comment.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:17 PM | link to this | reply

I understand that...

And, I don't always think that refusing missions and such is what should be done.  But, I guess your post just generalized a bit too much.  I believe being in the military is like having any other job: You do what your boss says or you get fired.  But, even people in the military have a moral conscience and maybe that keeps some soldiers (right or not) from doing what everyday people think should just be done.

I don't hold this opinion against you, Sarooster, I read you all the time and will continue to do so.  Just wanted to give you an opinion not from someone who has been there, but as a wife of a former reservest I don't think generalizations should be made about them as a group.  There's people who will always bitch and moan.  You're right.  But, they don't all fit into one class or group.  And, out of those that actually bitch and moan are a couple who just need to be told, "We hear you."

posted by RachelAnna on December 11, 2004 at 8:11 PM | link to this | reply

Who has brainwashed me thomaswelch?

Maybe I listen to too much Rush Limbaugh! Maybe I think the Secretary of Defense might just be in charge of the military whether we like him or not. I will say this and continue to say it. All military needs to fight. That is their duty. We can't have a military that whines and complains. That if for people like you to do. Us brainwashed souls will just wake up every morning and get our marching orders from George, Rush, and company.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:10 PM | link to this | reply

Look, I don't want to get everyone on the whole site up in arms

about my opinion. But, our military won't work if everyone in the service can complain and refuse missions and such. You have to do the job you are given; no questions asked. If you are given a task you have to perfrom it. It may be dangerous and it may get you killed, but you have to forge ahead with the task. Most of the people who are against this war are against George Bush and his cronies. They could win the war and cure cancer tomorrow morning and people would still complain. All I am saying is our soldiers should just fight. Don't whine. Don't complain. Just fight!!

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 8:07 PM | link to this | reply

“Oh, the bravery of being out of range”

I’ve learned quit a bit about you Rooster by reading this post. You almost sound brainwashed to me. I am certain you do not have any of the facts , and now I know it would not matter if you did. “Oh, the bravery of being out of range”

posted by ThomasWelch on December 11, 2004 at 8:05 PM | link to this | reply

Wow...

I actually believe if you join, you have more right to complain than anyone else.  Not that complaining will actually do anything or change the course of events, but you still have a voice regardless.  Just because you are a part of the military, and joined with the knowledge you may have to fight, doesn't mean you can't form your own opinions about what it is the military brass is calling for.  I agree there are those who are probably whiners and such, but you get that in any group of people.  Military or not there are people who are going to complain, and others who simply need their voice to be heard.

Just a difference in opinion, I suppose.  :)

posted by RachelAnna on December 11, 2004 at 8:02 PM | link to this | reply

I understand that fully well, and the grunts are the ones

who get killed. Their is a saying that goes something to the affect, "Soldiers fight wars and kings are heroes". That is sad, but when you join the army you don't complain. You follow orders and you fight with what you are given. I trust the military to do the job they are entrusted to do to win the war in the best way they see possible. I am not going to sit here and second guess the military brass. I will second guess our fighting men and women who stand up and complain when they should be fighting. I feel we have too many "citizen" soldiers who never thought they would have to fight a war like this. They are worried about things that don't concern them. If you are worried about getting killed join any branch of the military is not the thing to do. You can't complain after you join. You are the one doing a disservice to the nation and your fellow soldiers.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 7:52 PM | link to this | reply

In a battle all are soldiers

posted by beachbelle on December 11, 2004 at 7:42 PM | link to this | reply

I will defend Donald Rumsfeld and the military leaders

of our country to the end. Any soldier needs to follow orders and quit bellyaching. You join any branch of service, including the Guard and reserves, to kill or be killed in a war. That is the fact you must face. If you are not prepared to do that under any circumstances you should not consider military service.

posted by sarooster on December 11, 2004 at 7:40 PM | link to this | reply

Any soldier who goes to Iraq or elsewhere to fight and risk their life deserves the utmost respect and consideration from their fellow Americans. I don't care what type, branch, division. This is a grave insult to the brave young people in harm's way. To defend Rumsfeld and his cold, unconcerned attitude toward our troops is very unpatriotic.

posted by Katray2 on December 11, 2004 at 2:53 PM | link to this | reply

While perhaps there are many reasons that reservists join, Sarooster,

they still are exposed to the same amount of danger and distress. You make a valid point in one part here, that their reasons for joining might be diverse, and yet the title maybe is a little too strong. JMHO!

posted by KlaraRoberts on December 11, 2004 at 2:20 PM | link to this | reply

This is a very irresponsible post

you are ignorant to the facts and you should delete this and apologize for all those reservists who have served or are serving and to the families who lost loved ones. It is obvious you know nothing about military life.

posted by scoop on December 11, 2004 at 1:54 PM | link to this | reply

I don't know if that's accurate...

My husband was active for a couple years and then went into the reserves program.  He was well aware that should a war start somewhere, he'd be one of the first to be called.  He expected to have to fight while he was in the reserves.  As far as the money, well, it's not all it's cracked up to be.  As the wife of a former Army reserves SOLDIER I can say my husband (and all the others like him) didn't expect NOT to fight, they fully expected it.  These men and women are given the same training as active duty soldiers and I don't think anything should be taken away from them.

Every time soldiers are deployed there will be "whining" because really, who wants to go to war?  Not many sane people that I know of.  So, I urge you to take another look at these people and realize that being in the reserves doesn't make you any less able to whine or be reluctant to go fight in a war.  No matter what your status, it sucks.

posted by RachelAnna on December 11, 2004 at 1:50 PM | link to this | reply