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word.smith

It is also about affording others with the same dignity we should each be given

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 8:42 PM | link to this | reply

Who would think that one email

and one observation would start an endless cycle of arguments.   Expressing our views is our right, however, I have noticed that some of us cannot seem to agree that everybody has rights and mean it. I saw today that  while people are saying that free speech is their right, they start to get malicious when someone offers an opposing view and sticks by it. 

BB, I can't say how much I agree that  "free speech is not only about speaking but listening with courtesy." 

It is my fervent hope that noone gets hounded to death or hurt in the fray.    What would our children think of our behaviour?

posted by word.smith on December 9, 2004 at 7:26 PM | link to this | reply

Scoop

I feel much the same. I write first because I want to, need to but I want to be read. I know you do because I know you get fed up when all the crap gets the traffic.

2 . I never block or boycott here or in emails although some people I will skip for a while .

3. I would rather have a fewer readers and have them really read me than to have clicks.

I abhor name-calling.

I say show why a point is stupid rather than just call the person who made it stupid (even if you think they are).

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 5:21 PM | link to this | reply

David1Spirit. We have a difference of style

A fundamental difference. Of course I would react but I would not tell the world. I would deal with it at source. I would respond with an email, perhaps I would block them from emailing me although I have never done that. I might even send a copy off it to Blogitstaff if it is particularly offensive and breaches the code and spirit of Blogit. But I would not post about it. I would only do that as a last resort.

You see it drags everyone else in and it is crazy when most of us have no idea who the "idiots" are and what they said. Not only that, one minute it is about the "idiots" and next about the language. I have addressed my view on both many times and shouldn't have to reiterate it here but I am confused now which issue it is all about.

I would think that it was an idiotic thing for anyone say that about you and your wife.Mind you, I see idiotic things all day long here but I see good stuff too.
You spoke in your comment of what language - fuck, cunt etc that this one and that one is posting about but my point was never about that. If you think someone is out of order tell them. I too have bigger fish to fry than to have to restate it again or to patrol posts

My take on the language thing is in my Blogit Battles Matter Little post and was touched again on yesterday.

Have a good day.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 5:14 PM | link to this | reply

BB

I think you know full well what I was referring to when I called someone an idiot. I called the person an idiot because she called me an asshole and my wife a slut. I was incensed at the time, so I would think people would have cut me some slack on it. Guess I was wrong.

Also I could probably find 1000's of posts where other bloggers have called each other much worse. I have yet to see any backlash. I have read more than 100 posts where the words words fuck, suck, dick, pussy, asshole cunt, etc etc. run rampant; yet my one word "idiot" caused a furor. Please be honest, have you ever referred to another human being as an "idiot"? If you ever did, then I am hoping you can see why I did, given the circumstances that I was involved in.

In a post from a extremely popular male poet yesterday, I was referred to as a pussy. I didn't hear so much as a squeak of protest from any blogger. Just today there is a post with the exact headline: " hanging around with homos can make you feel like a pervert.." Where's the outcry? I have been called a pig, a swine and a rapist by other bloggers. This has been in the last 2 days. Yet I don't see one blogger who takes offense. I wonder why? I wonder why my one word "idiot" was able to get such a reaction.

posted by David1Spirit on December 9, 2004 at 4:50 PM | link to this | reply

David1Spirit

It is not a matter of obligation but common courtesy that people shut up for a moment and consider other's views particularly on subjects that we may have initiated or contributed too.
When you or me become TV pundits or columnists it will be a little different but in the meantime we are members of a tiny blogging community where I for one want the opportunity to hear a huge variety of voices. Often the greatest wisdoms are found in the quietest of places. Let's leave a space for that.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 4:47 PM | link to this | reply

Beachy also I am not against negative comments

that is their views based on my opinion, I don't mind that but when it gets down to name calling I don't need it. I will respect a persons view and we can agree to disagree but nicely.

posted by scoop on December 9, 2004 at 4:44 PM | link to this | reply

Beachy good points as usual

1-Like I said in David1's comment section "writers write" if people don't like what others write don't read it. I don't like censorship. When you go to a newstand you have a choice Playboy or Time, Penthouse or Life, it is your choice.

2-there are many I don't read for various reasons but I won't publicly boycott anyone, it is not for me to name names or try to influence others to follow me in my choice.

3-I also came here to write not to join the "comment for clicks" club, sorry if I want to comment I will, if people read me and comment good but I write to express my views. I, like others have abused the comment section because it gets used for many other things instead of using the chatroom or whatever they call it here.

posted by scoop on December 9, 2004 at 4:38 PM | link to this | reply

KATRAY. You sum up EXACTLY my point.

You don't say someone is an idiot, you argue your points and let everyone draw their own conclusions on the issue

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 4:33 PM | link to this | reply

Ok BB, I'll give you that.

Of course I did not realize that I was being discourteous just because I didn't comment on your post yesterday or engage in a conversation about your point of view. I did not know that I was somehow obligated too. But if that's what is considered rude, I guess I am guilty.

But as you can see I am making up for it today. And I am being kind and courteous in my words and my points. I cannot think that anyone could expect anything more.

I guess the issue will never die down (I am sure you have seen other bloggers posts today), but as for myself, I have other things to do. That doesn't mean I won't go into a different blogger's post and give my point of view; especially if that person's post is a direct response to my own. Neither should you.

posted by David1Spirit on December 9, 2004 at 4:29 PM | link to this | reply

BB, nah, we need you right here.

posted by PastorB on December 9, 2004 at 4:25 PM | link to this | reply

I did read your post, David, and although what you say is true, other

content was included, many of the comments were directed at censorship. You are still posting what you want aren't you? Where is there any censorship then? Your replies imply censorship to others. You and I spoke yesterday on someone else's blog about this too, and I stated then, it was a dead subject. You agreed, again. You did just mention my name here, again. You say it's a dead subject and then drop my name in a discussion of any type of censorship, or the content of my posts. Again. You can "imply" things without saying them. I don't want to bash it out here. This is Beachie's blog.

posted by KlaraRoberts on December 9, 2004 at 4:24 PM | link to this | reply

Unicorn

I am starting to wish I was at more of a distance.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 4:21 PM | link to this | reply

Homegirl

I believe that true free speech allows give and take

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 4:19 PM | link to this | reply

klara

My post today was a direct response to the very last comment that beachbelle herself left on my post from late yesterday, more or less around midnight, which is today by the way. You may want to go look for yourself, please. thank you.

By the way, the post I wrote yesterday was about my job, nothing else. The second post was about Araila and myself, nothing else. Again, please go back and read for yourself. thank you.

posted by David1Spirit on December 9, 2004 at 4:18 PM | link to this | reply

David1Spirit

I do appreciate all of those points because you have mentioned them before. I was only pointing out that although I was prepared to contribute to discussions in your posts, and those of others on this topic, and to hear many, many remarks implying that some of us want curbs on language etc you did not give me the courtesy of giving consideration and comment to my posts on the topic. I did not say your tone was discourteous.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 4:17 PM | link to this | reply

David, you posted days ago and said, "Enough is enough".

Is that not correct? At which time, I agreed with you and let you have the last post on this issue. Did I not?

Now today, you have posted on this same issue yet again. A man that breaks his word, in my opinion, is discourteous. Yet here you say that Beach can't "let this go". And again, in your comment here, is my name, as her name was in your post.

Yesterday, all over the place, I saw the shadows of my post, in your comments to many.

posted by KlaraRoberts on December 9, 2004 at 4:12 PM | link to this | reply

excellent point!

"To my mind free speech is not only about speaking but listening with courtesy."

posted by homegirl on December 9, 2004 at 4:07 PM | link to this | reply

I was very courteous to you.

I was emphatic in my comments, which are a reflection of my beliefs; but I never once was rude to you or klara or anyone else by name for that matter. You are all invited to go back and look of the the comments if you wish.

In fact one time I did call 2 people "idiots", but I was referring to the 2 emailers. As far as I know you have never sent me a mail, so therefore I certainly couldn't have been talking about you.

I was no more discourteous than anyone else, but somehow I get the "bad guy" label stuck on me. If anyone should be disappointed it should be me. I am not holding any grudges whatsoever, yet I see post after post which shows some bloggers still haven't gotten over the issue that they themselves have been telling me to let go of.

posted by David1Spirit on December 9, 2004 at 4:05 PM | link to this | reply

BB

This was an excellent speech and post. I think we could all do with taking your points in to consideration. One thing good has come out of all this ruckous here the last few days, it's prompted writers, like yourself, to point out these things from a distance, shedding a new perspective on the issue. Thank you.

posted by PastorB on December 9, 2004 at 4:01 PM | link to this | reply

My ears much appreciated everything you said Beach.;) I have been insulted, ridiculed and trampled on more than once here for sharing my beliefs and opinions. When I protested about their rudeness, a couple of them accused me of trying to infringe upon their freedom of speech rights. Uh no, I was only complaining about the method of disagreement, not the disagreeing itself. Big difference.

posted by PoetRaye on December 9, 2004 at 3:59 PM | link to this | reply

David1Spirit

You did present your view and I gave the courtesy of my time and attention and comments. Obviously we all have different views - that has never been an issue. It is a shame that you did not give me the same courtesy to my views over the past couple of days. If anything were to offend me it would be that.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 3:54 PM | link to this | reply

I enjoyed this Beach. I am saddened to finally come on here today and see

so much bickering. I'm glad you spoke, totally. I also say what I like every damned day.

posted by KlaraRoberts on December 9, 2004 at 3:14 PM | link to this | reply

You gave a differing opinion

That was well thought out and actually very true. On every issue there are 2 sides, and that doesn't make either one any more right than the other.

I have my way of presenting things, but that's just the way I am.

posted by David1Spirit on December 9, 2004 at 2:55 PM | link to this | reply

Klara Roberts

I thought it was time explain how I felt about things although I do that every damned day

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:54 PM | link to this | reply

Symphony

Do what you need to with the other parts ;-) Thanks for your ears

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:53 PM | link to this | reply

And I always read you, Beachie, because of the rationality.

You always write with the analysis thoroughly laid out and presented in a calm manner. You get more accomplished with your "whispers" than others accomplish with their "screams". Thanks for the great, timely post.

posted by KlaraRoberts on December 9, 2004 at 2:28 PM | link to this | reply

I lent you my ears and I listened

I agree with some parts....take care

posted by _Symphony_ on December 9, 2004 at 2:23 PM | link to this | reply

SincerityAnna

thank you

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:12 PM | link to this | reply

roofpig

Somewhere is a repository for all the severed ears. How much knowledge they must contain

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:12 PM | link to this | reply

Meriouma

I thoght it was elevator music playing too loud. I don't think that much of consequence is going on. Thanks for visiting.

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:10 PM | link to this | reply

Kingmi

Are you? If so it has not troubled me

posted by beachbelle on December 9, 2004 at 2:08 PM | link to this | reply

BB, I agree, and I'm one of the biggest offenders!

posted by kingmi on December 9, 2004 at 1:36 PM | link to this | reply

Beachbelle,

Did you say something?  And what was that creepy banjo music?

Okay, okay...'nuff kidding around.  Great post, and well-timed.  I think we could use a break from certain...uh...well, you know what's going on.

xoxo

posted by myrrhage_ on December 9, 2004 at 12:46 PM | link to this | reply

WHAT?!??  I couldn't hear you, I lent you my ears at the beginning of that blog...

posted by roofpig on December 9, 2004 at 12:33 PM | link to this | reply

beach...

good post...I think you said it well...

posted by SincerityAnna on December 9, 2004 at 12:30 PM | link to this | reply