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Oh, this is an easy one.
All you gotta do is surround yourself with spiritual stuff 
, and talk about love
and God 
and all that. Then you'll find yourself in the midst of Christian types 
. You just agree with all the scriptural folk 
, and bless all the rebel folk 
, and you're in. 
Haha! It should work, that is, of course, if your individual opinions are not important to you... People who argue too much usually end up in Hell. (oops)
posted by
TARZANA
on November 29, 2004 at 9:57 AM
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Question of the Ages
long before Christianity was around. The Egyptians considered an afterlife, so a life eternal was around even then. The Afterlife was not just for the Pharoes, but for all people. There relationship to the living was what maintained their joy in the afterlife. The Chinese and other eastern ideologies, through ancestor "worship" was also an eternal concept. Bringing shame on the family (alive as well as dead) was the force behind developing good moral behavior. It was the Greek and Romans who invested their evlauation of a good soul in living a good life, having a thin line between doing what you could at your best and trying to go beyond it in a puffed up ego, or wasting it in doing less than capable--Be what thou art, neither more nor less--yet recognizing the influence of deity in attaining that "best" was the cause for worship. Focusing on "heaven" narrows the dialogue of the afterlife, since there is so much written in the Bible about its definition. Those who want to change or modify that definition are on the brink of heresy and counted as tools of Satan (within the christian dogma). Jesus preached eternity, that we are IN it and that Heaven is HERE ON EARTH. But the powers that needed control, developed the gatekeeper dogma that began the elitism and persecution of others, creating judgement of men and not God as the deciding factor. For all those fundis who think they are going to heaven, I refer to Jesus' saying "and ye call on me, saying Lord, Lord, have I not done great thing in thy name" and he says, "I knew ye not." The pride of those who want to "decide" who gets beyond the judgement will find themselves in pergetory, limbo or even hell.
I, myself, embrace "heaven on earth" in the perfectness of nature and enjoy seeing the beauty of nature as the affirmation of life and its eternal nature. Though we are here but a short time, how much better to love this life, this earth home and share this love with others? Why the fault finding and sin language--what salvation is there necessary to make us what we are, eternal beings with eternal life (even if the body fades, our essence keep going).
posted by
freerain
on November 28, 2004 at 1:29 PM
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jackie o
I believe I am on the true path.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 23, 2004 at 9:20 AM
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cent
I agree there is no room for bigotry. Enjoy your walk!
posted by
pappy
on November 22, 2004 at 6:34 PM
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Westie,
What truly irks me in this argument of the bigoted christians and other religious fanatics and the "true" way to heaven is they presume to speak for God and tell us what His words mean and what His plan for the human race is. Can you imagine a God that would condemn a person to hell just because he knew nothing about His Son's coming to earth? Can you think and imagine that He would do this to a person who was good and kind, loving and caring to all he meets, a good father and husband, a man who does no one any harm? Why would he do this? Because the person I speak of was from another religion, a different denomination, or no religion at all? Do non-religious good people go to hell? Why do these christians presume that God hasn't made many roads to paradise? Can't they just look around them and see the diversity God has created? It is nothing more than pure ignorance and bigotry that would have a person believe their way is the only correct and true way to do God's work and enter into heaven. These simpletons act as though this is all some kind of football game, and only their team can win. How foolish and childish, and it reeks of bigotry and a simple-minded elitism. But then I guess some organized religions need to play to this elitist attitude, snobbery, and bigotry that lurks within the hearts of so many people. If it wasn't such a dangerous attitude it would be fairly comical and amusing. Sadly though this type of thought has brought death and destruction to many of us humans over the millenium, by all these "exclusive" vehicles to heaven. On the road to heaven I prefer to walk, and take my time.
Cent
posted by
Cent
on November 22, 2004 at 5:29 PM
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Westwend -
I think Pappy summed up my feelings as well.
posted by
sannhet
on November 22, 2004 at 4:27 PM
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westwind
Sorry I missed it yesterday. Maybe a double dose today? They way I read it, at the end Jesus said "It is finished," and the veil of the temple separating men from God was torn in two. To me, that says that everybody gets eternal life, whether they know it or not; whether they like it or not. What it's like when you get there is, by the law of liberty, totally up to you. It is convenient to say that if you think it is going to be good, then it will; if you think it's going to be bad, you're right; and if you don't know, well, you might find yourself lost somewhere. But seriously, what people think of as kharma, what goes around comes around, is probably as close as we can know at this time. I also think that the good stuff sticks to your soul, and the bad stuff gets washed away. But that standard, heaven will probably be populated by a lot of very young souls, say, in the two to seven range. Heaven boring? Have you ever seen a bored two year old? I don't think they make them. Is there a hierarchy in heaven? Many mansions is the promise. There have been many martyrs over the years who doubtless deserve some good treatment. All in all, I would say everybody there will be able to agree that it is fair and there will be very few surprises.
posted by
pappy
on November 22, 2004 at 3:54 PM
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Westwend I am going to go back and read your posts
to get a good idea of your beliefs. Interesting thoughts you have. It does seem though you have not made up your mind on what the 'true' path is. It also seems you know what the truth is but you dont want it to be true simply because their are more gratifying 'paths' out there that offer an amalgam of Christianity and other religions. This can work against you.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 22, 2004 at 10:38 AM
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Well it would seem that Christians believe that they will go to Heaven, only they all can't agree with what heaven is or what is really considered a sin. Heaven is supposed to open be open for everyone, only Christians believe that if you don't believe in Jesus as your Lord and savior, you won't get in. A sinner can get to Heaven only if he repents and believes in Jesus. Does that mean that a seriel rapist and killer can get in if he repents and truly believes in Jesus? What about the terrible sins he committed in his life? What about the good person who never head of Jesus? Will they be cast out of Heaven because of his ignorance? If gaining entrance to Heaven is defined in this manner, we're all going to hell.
posted by
Matos
on November 22, 2004 at 10:02 AM
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Kind of like a "Members Only" club.
posted by
roofpig
on November 22, 2004 at 9:43 AM
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jackie o
I've posted on universal salvation a few times here. that can answer your basic question of salvation
what lies beyond this life -- once we've "passed muster" and don't need to be reincarnated? -- this is the mystery -- one would have to be a mystic in order to really understand this --
personally, I think it's good that an afterlife is such an unknown -- because such helps us to concentrate on the here and now.
any description of an afterlife is pure speculation. I want to address the speculations in a later post.
my point here is that there are at least two different ideas of who gets into Heaven -- and they basically clash. So which, if any, is correct?
One has to be right? right? those who don't adhere to the right one will not get into Heaven.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 22, 2004 at 9:42 AM
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westwend
how do
you think people get into heaven?
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 22, 2004 at 8:02 AM
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Mormon is the right one?
Of course South Park is a comedy, right?
posted by
David1Spirit
on November 22, 2004 at 7:57 AM
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This just makes me remember an episode of South Park where people are trying to get into heaven, and several are like "But I'm Catholic," "But I'm Methodist," but St. Peter won't let them in. So someone asks, "Well, what was the right religion?"
"The correct religion was Mormon."
posted by
roofpig
on November 22, 2004 at 7:55 AM
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Thankfully I am part of neither camp
I don't buy into the heaven or hell thing; or the sin thing for that matter. But I do believe that all souls will move on. To where, I am not sure. But "everyone" is included; and I believe it has little to do with our present lives or choices we make.
posted by
David1Spirit
on November 22, 2004 at 7:50 AM
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