Comments on Do We Fail As Writers If We Never Publish A Book?

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Rovesciato

Yes, I tend to agree that it is presumptuous for people to describe themselves as writers when they have not walked the walk. I am not writer of fiction (yet) but I can safely call myself a writer with regard to non-fiction. However anyone can write.
I believe it is still perfectly possible for you to get work published. You need to make a plan and target specific publications and then give them material that fits in with their requirements. I am sure you can.

posted by beachbelle on November 9, 2004 at 2:17 AM | link to this | reply

i often wonder how i would react if something of mine was accepted in

a significant forum. i did have three paragraphs published at cafeirreal,com, but aside from paying a penny a word (i got apostal money order for six dollars and my mom insisted on framing it. now, i didn't even pick up my diploma . . . ) i also felt from the start, well, that changes nothing. the site has lots of established writers on it so i guess i should be glad i cracked it, but the stuff the thing they published is probably of less quality than most of what i've sent them and i feel that each passing year  there is less and less chance of my cracking through there even as i am able to send  better submissions. that's really my feeling about publishing oppertunities in general, but i still believe that it would change me moderately if i had something i felt comfortable claiming as my own in a legitamate publishing venue, either electronic or physical.

i do, however, in terms of casual discussion, believe that if someone has not been published significantly or frequently they should not call themselves a writer, as i do not myself. currently i'm a dishwasher or doing nothing. for me to say i'm a writer now feels like i want to be given praise on credit.regaurdless of the individual merits of the published and the unpublished there is a real divide and we should not stake claims on the other side until we've crossed it.

posted by rovesciato on November 9, 2004 at 2:05 AM | link to this | reply

Mary x

I definitely need to write - whether people need to read depends on a number of factors

posted by beachbelle on November 9, 2004 at 1:34 AM | link to this | reply

Codface Crowley. Thanks for your comment. I see what you are saying

posted by beachbelle on November 9, 2004 at 1:32 AM | link to this | reply

failing as writers

Writing is a part of who we are, a characteristic of the writers personality.  We only fail when we ignore or truncate that part of ourselves.  I wrote an artile for a company organ for ten years and earned promtions and success.   When what I had to say on the subjects avaiable to me were exhausted I left that employment.   Yet, I am still a writer.  It is one of the things which describe me and one of my most basic activities.

posted by CodfaceCrowley on November 8, 2004 at 5:53 PM | link to this | reply

Beachbelle,

I remember as a teenager asking my boss if she loved painting, she answered, "I don't like to paint, I need to paint."  In some way, I feel compelled to write, much against my will, as I wrote in my journal, there is no other occupation that will satisfuy this need.

 I don't know much about Vincent Van Gogh's life, but as I understand it, he had an inner compulsion, and you made a good point, it was not in response to critics or for fame.  I would be kidding myself if I said I don't care if anyone reads me, I do care, otherwise, I will not have made a vital connection.

You have a good point that the world does need writers, fiction wrtiers to report and interpret the world. Novelists do have an important voice.  I tend to discount that.  Good luck on your published piece.  I look forward to hearing about the progress.

posted by Blanche. on November 8, 2004 at 4:23 PM | link to this | reply

Aardvark

Fiction is more daunting for me. My essay is about coming home and yet not finding home.

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 12:15 PM | link to this | reply

Loan-lady, champagne, I love it. I like to think that Vincent

was not thinking of others but had a need to express himself. One has to be very tough to survive as an artist. My other half is an artist and recently created some inspired work - I have seen his work which waas not. He needed to make this work but in this society - it needs to sell too. But inthe creation of the work it is better not to think of that otherwise it may fall between the stools

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 12:14 PM | link to this | reply

I'll buy the champagne when the first chapter goes out!  To go back to Vincent, as I know of him- He did not care what kind of canvas he painted on. Sometimes Theo gave him Belgian Linen streachers and sometimes he painted right over older works for lack of a new slate to draw on. His muse his desire to express his world and his moment in time drove him to work day and night. I believe he wasn't considering what persons in the salon or farm workers in the wheat field thought about his status or prestige he was just working. Writing is a funny thing to present at career night at the high school - so intangible. If you say to the high schoolers in the audience " I am  a writer " what does that translate to ? maybe novelist as you say first, but also news reporters, also so many other layers of types of writing. Who cares what others think about the status of the nitty gritty type of work i say, "never mind the bullocks" and be happy and have pride with what you do.  I hear some corks popping !!!  

posted by the-loanlady on November 8, 2004 at 10:48 AM | link to this | reply

Writing a novel sounds daunting. What's your essay about?

posted by aardvark on November 8, 2004 at 10:37 AM | link to this | reply

so it seems

I think there is a line of writing that has not been put in publish yet, creative writing. in the sense that it's free and very responsive. i could think of couple of fiction books that are close to free creative writing: catcher in the rye, and life of pi.

very interesting post beachbelle

posted by Q8_Girl on November 8, 2004 at 9:49 AM | link to this | reply

beachbelle

I've always been drawn to fiction. Now that I think about it, the idea of writing a nonfiction article doesn't inspire me at all and rarely even enters my mind. I could see myself writing a weekly slice of life type column for a newspaper, the kind of stuff like I write in my journal, but nothing heavy or actually "journalistic." I don't discount those who write nonfiction, but it's not for me.  

posted by Talion on November 8, 2004 at 7:13 AM | link to this | reply

Congratulations... keep on keepin' on!

posted by cmoe on November 8, 2004 at 6:47 AM | link to this | reply

I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one, Beach.

It's a matter of prestige it seems, rather than dollars. How To books and self help books can sell wildly, as well as nonfiction works, but writing one's own fiction seems to carry with it a certain "penache" especially among writing circles. I do feel that if I don't get my own books out there I will have failed. I don't feel though that it needs to be fiction, although mine will then lack the prestige given. I just have made this "deal" with myself, as fiction is my weak point. It's a realistic view of what I feel personally I can accomplish. I must ignore the pressures. Great post.

posted by KlaraRoberts on November 8, 2004 at 6:35 AM | link to this | reply

Hey, Bella, some people are definitely

better at certain kinds of writing than others. Kinda nice really.

posted by Oceandancer on November 8, 2004 at 5:44 AM | link to this | reply

Ca88

I know this may sound strange given my blogs but `i find it difficult to write about myself. It is only possible here because I am anonymous. In the soon to be published piece in the book, it was about me and my name is attached and that was really difficult. As a journalist I am not used to writing about myself

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 3:34 AM | link to this | reply

L..E.Gant

I think that my husband needs to find one of those publishers who puts out one good - non-commercial book per year. He had had agents say as much. My ideas are more mainstream.
What we will never know about Van Gogh is whether he realised his own dreams or failed to achieve men. Personally I don't think it is a failure not to write a book only unless it is a particular goal which one fails to achieve

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 3:31 AM | link to this | reply

Sometimes I think its strange that I don't have the urge to write fiction. Of course I've tried, but my characters are all so one dimensional and boring. But when I write about me I do a better job, or at least I think I do.

posted by Ca88andra on November 8, 2004 at 3:25 AM | link to this | reply

OOPs... meant to put in one more thing: do we fail if we don't get a book published? Well, Van Gogh never sold a painting in his life. Did he fail as an artist?

posted by L.E.Gant on November 8, 2004 at 3:06 AM | link to this | reply

Fiction Vs Non-fiction...

Personally, I don't distinguish (in my reading) between the two - I'm just as likely to be reading something in the hard sciences/math as a novel or even poetry. Writing them, however, the difference is in the structure - "Thre Three T's" for non-fiction and the beginning-middle-end for the other.

As for getting published - well, there are those who consider self-publishing as "bad" and commercial publishing as "good". But publishers I've met admit that they don't publish many pieces that they believe should be published - they have a business to run, and they have to choose between "bad" books that will sell and "good" books that won't - which would YOU choose in their position?  (Note: there are a few who make it a point to publish one book a year that THEY thihk is good, but which probably will lose money)

posted by L.E.Gant on November 8, 2004 at 2:58 AM | link to this | reply

Thanks for the advice, BB. Will consider the suggestion.

I still have not decided what I intend to write about next for Singapore Trivia, but I have just put up a new post in 'Sun-Tzu Says'. You can check that out in the meantime.

posted by Amateur on November 8, 2004 at 2:38 AM | link to this | reply

Wildwoman, I should play it much more cool

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 2:37 AM | link to this | reply

Beach

ridiculously excited...sigh....I want to be as such.  You have every right!  Say those two words aloud.  Don't they sound as splendid as they feel rolling off of your tongue?  Anyway....yeah, that class I'm taking is a real eye opener...

posted by Wildwoman_Laloba on November 8, 2004 at 1:38 AM | link to this | reply

Yes, understand.

Waiting in trepidation

for the confirmation.

Ben

posted by A-and-B on November 8, 2004 at 1:13 AM | link to this | reply

Ben, I could be making it all up of course ...

no I wouldn't

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 1:05 AM | link to this | reply

Amateur, you are right.

That's why I don't rate novelists above all else and yet I get the sense that when many people aspire to be writers they predominantly think of fiction.
BTW, I enjoyed your comments on GoldenMean's blog - perhaps you should rework them into blogs.

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 1:05 AM | link to this | reply

No apologies necessary.

Part of the fun of remaining incognito

is one is free to bask in the sunny glory;

while it still shines.

Ben

posted by A-and-B on November 8, 2004 at 1:04 AM | link to this | reply

Ben,

I know you have - and if there was champagne available I would share some wit you and Ann. I did admit I have mentioned it about 162 times. Sorry. I will only post again about the reaction or non reaction. You guys better hope nothing comes of it for me or I will never stop;-)

posted by beachbelle on November 8, 2004 at 1:02 AM | link to this | reply

Yes, read about your plug long ago.

Congratulations again.

A virtual party is penniless in expense,

yet generates clicks all round.

All the best, once again.

Ben

posted by A-and-B on November 8, 2004 at 12:58 AM | link to this | reply

All good writers possess an excellent grasp of the language. That is probably the only thing that is common amongst good writers.

Even amongst good writers, not everyone is gifted in writing fiction; not everyone is learned enough to write a rich piece of published commentary/essay/article that oozes knowledge and content with every sentence; not everyone has an interesting or inspiring life and is able to narrate it in a compelling fashion. Even amongst fiction writers, there are some who specialise in writing short stories and there are others who excel in writing long novels. It's a matter of personal talents, preference and style, I guess.

posted by Amateur on November 8, 2004 at 12:54 AM | link to this | reply

I think it is best not to give too much importance to the critics.

If the readers like it that is enough

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 10:46 PM | link to this | reply

Sometimes I feel like an chicken...

I wonder if I have the bravado to become an accomplished author; as I see it, a book is a legacy and any writer who dedicates them self to this purpose must have tremendous courage and a will to both get it written and deal with the harsh light of critics. Truly, who amongst us has this?

posted by Diversion4u on November 7, 2004 at 10:20 PM | link to this | reply

Wolf-girl

The penury is such that we have to do it for ourselves. Nothing is stopping me .. I am on the case in between writing articles to pay the bills. I had a conventional job but it got in the way.

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 8:51 PM | link to this | reply

BB,

Writers by and large get very little in the way of esteem from the world, or monetary compensation. It's a wonder there are so many authors and aspiring authors! But if you want to be published someday...what keeps you from finished the book??

posted by Wolf-Girl on November 7, 2004 at 8:32 PM | link to this | reply

I don't think it is just you INCUBUS

If I can't write fiction for myself I can't write it for anyone else. I am in a different situation from many perhaps because I can write other pieces of work specifically for other people (although I do enjoy it) . Because I am prolific and highly tuned to that side that it is perhaps more difficult to allow myself to switch back to the selfish pursuit of fiction.

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 8:27 PM | link to this | reply

beache thanks for that! I needed a compliment after having been informed

that I might go to hell.  Of course, it's over beliefs/religion yadayadayada.  So religious to beleive another will go to hell.  Sorry I'm having a fit in your post!  I'm trying to be nice here with my terrible beliefs system, and stay out THEIR post, but I see it did not help me, and it hindered you!  EVERYTHING IS A PART OF WHAT IT IS NOT.  OOP@  epiphany@  Gotta go write thank you beach for that!

posted by Kelli on November 7, 2004 at 8:24 PM | link to this | reply

I think . . .

writing fiction is very much like playing a full round of golf, alone, in a gusty, erratic wind during a lightning storm. But I would and still do it even when no one else appreciates it but me. I believe we write fiction for ourselves first, then sometimes try to share it with others. But that could easily just be me.

posted by Zachary.N.Miles on November 7, 2004 at 8:18 PM | link to this | reply

unicorn. thank you

If the work is accepted it is great ...with open arms is a bonus

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 8:15 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

It probably makes more sense than you know or at least as much as anyone but it doesn't have to be poured into one vessel

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 8:14 PM | link to this | reply

that is so true what you said about having a book or anything

published. Very much like child birth in the sense that you "birth" this piece of art, and then you send it out into the big scary world only to pray it is accepted with open arms. Those were some of my most stressful times.
Congrats on your work being published! May your pages never be empty.

posted by PastorB on November 7, 2004 at 6:42 PM | link to this | reply

beachbelle, what i mean is, oh yes, i HAVE a book, (s), but the thing is,

none of it makes any sense when it's all together.

posted by Kelli on November 7, 2004 at 6:33 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli, I believe that if you wished to write a book you absolutely could

- but I enjoy your stream of conciousness posts and see the appeal of that

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 6:25 PM | link to this | reply

Hollee

Spoken like a true "former editor". I know how important that job is.

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 6:23 PM | link to this | reply

UntoldOne

It is a good thing I believe and now they are going to take a look at a funny piece on spec.
To be honest I really can't tell if my piece is any good. It is just a small piece about an experience I had which fitted in with their theme. I will let you know who, when, where, why although not over the tannoy ((((((( ))))))))))

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 6:22 PM | link to this | reply

beach - may never write a book, but I am working hard to make sure

others who have the idea and the talent are able to do so. That's probably going to be my "claim to fame."

And it is enough surprisingly.

posted by Hollee on November 7, 2004 at 6:20 PM | link to this | reply

Although it may seem odd, I could never write a book. I have NO idea of

what I would write about.  My writing is in no way planned.  What you see is what I am thinking and/or doing RIGHT then.  I just sit and type the words.

I think a book takes more work than that..........

posted by Kelli on November 7, 2004 at 6:12 PM | link to this | reply

beachbelle . . .

Hey, this sounds good!

   I'd like very much to read your piece.  What is the book's title?  And what is the series' title?

   Please let me know, okay?

   Way to go!

posted by UntoldOne on November 7, 2004 at 6:02 PM | link to this | reply

Canine277

While aspects of publication are out of your control, once written it will be in your power to improve the chances for the manuscript. Just you watch, typing "The End" will only signify the beginning of the next stage

posted by beachbelle on November 7, 2004 at 5:31 PM | link to this | reply

BB,

I never thought that I could write a book. But now that I've started one I will be VERY disappointed if I fail to finish it. I don't even care about the publication because that's out of my control. I just want to type the words The End.

posted by canine277 on November 7, 2004 at 5:25 PM | link to this | reply