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posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2004 at 2:57 PM
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Great post Jane...
You've hit the nail on the head. Those who've commented are lost puppies who only want to push their emotional idiocy onto everyone else. These are the people who claim we must be "tolerant," which means they want us to let them corrupt society any way they want.
They get so wrapped up in emotions they can't see the bigger picture, so they blame everyone else for not agreeing with them on their desires and immoral way of life.
This election was good for showing the majority of Americans that we are still a nation who puts values first, and have sent the selfish ones to the fringes of the nation, kind of like the way God parted the Red Sea for Moses and his people. Only this time, he used Bush and his supporters to spread his message and save us once again from those corruptors that came from Carter and Clinton.
Now these liberals think it is we who must change our faith and values to accomodate them, even after they've been defeated. It's amazing how they think.
Having seen that Bush won on Values, Liberals will now, (and I know this coming just from the comments on this blog), try to change the definition of what "Values" and "Morals" actually are by further attacking Churches, claiming they are divisive, and they won't see that it is they who are the ones trying to separate people from Church and God.
Keep the faith!
DAE
posted by
DEMSareEVIL
on November 6, 2004 at 12:57 PM
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Absolutely
It is time for calling a stop to this. People should take only so much.
posted by
Justi
on November 6, 2004 at 12:39 PM
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wow, excellent post!
And as I'm sure you know, hundreds of Christians are already being persecuted for their faith and imprisoned due to it. And I'm not talking about just third world Christians being persecuted.
PastorB
posted by
PastorB
on November 6, 2004 at 12:04 PM
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More comments to your comments to my comments to your comments. . . .
Kooka, I appreciate your response about Christians trying to push their religion and beliefs on you. We Christians get excited about our faith and want to share it with others. We can be pushy, and so I apologize for those who have offended you.
And I agree that none of the gays and lesbians I know have, to my knowledge, been booked with sexual abuse of a minor. However, I do stand by my stats (many of them were government stats) on child abuse. And I concur that priests need to be included in the statistics of having harmed many young children, mostly boys. Pedophilia is often grouped under homosexuality because the vast majority of pedophiles are men commiting acts against young boys.
[My main beliefs on homosexuals is that their lifestyle is not hurting anyone.] But they are harming themselves with their promiscuity. And that, of course, goes for hetero relationships as well. As I commented to westwend in a different blog, according to USAID, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the British Medical Journal, there would not be an AIDS pandemic in Africa (or elsewhere) were it not for promiscuity. And again, according to stats (I know we're going round and round on this issue) homosexuals are doing far more one night stands than are heterosexuals. But in either case, when talking homo vs hetero, we humans are harming ourselves with our promiscuity!
Sadly, I don't believe, Kooka, you and I are going to see eye to eye on this. I am glad that we can carry out a fairly civil conversation over the web, and that we have been able to dialogue on this topic. I wish that people would come together more and discuss these issues rather than experience such enmity. On Christians and morals and homosexuality, the Church has much to be ashamed of in its lack of support and (frequently) expressions of hatred towards gays and lesbians. Those of us who call ourselves followers of Christ should not take pride in our morality lest we quickly fall flat on our faces into some sort of moral sin. Instead, with humility, we should express our gratitude to God for his grace, and then follow God's commands by loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. And that would include the gay community and anyone else with whom we don't agree.
I hope you're having a GREAT day!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2004 at 11:43 AM
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jane
First off I have been in many, ,many situation where i have been forced to follow other's ideas. Yet it has never happened with any homosexuals i know (Maybe they just do not find me attractive). It has happened with Christians and other people trying to push their religious faith on me. It has happened with close people who feel I need to be something i am not.
Out of all the homosexuals I have known in my life, and I am often surprised by the amount, I have yet ot know any who have been even charged with any kind of sexual crimes. They are not interested in boys. I do wonder great about that number. I would bet there are more aspect to it than any idea that homosexuals are more likely to commit such acts. For one thing there is a fair amount of evidence to point to the idea that when a heterosexual does such an act, family and friends will be more likely to cover it up. I do know several heterosexuals who have committed sex crimes against children, a few of which have gotten away with them due to people pretending it has not happened. Due to our bias against homosexual we as a society will be more likely ot go after them fully for committing such crimes, and be more lenient with heterosexuals. ALso, does that statistic put priests and such as being homosexual when they go after little boys? There is a level there were the person who commits the crime may not be homosexual, btu be doing a homosexual act in the molestation due to what ever and so it gets classified as a homosexual committing the crime.
If homosexuality is a learned life style, then so must be heterosexuality. We would have to e born with no sexuality and learn it by living life. That would still make homosexuality just as natural as heterosexuality. I myself feel as though I were born heterosexual and so I must believe that such things are what we are born with. Now I will concede that there are going to be those who due to trauma and such will find an alternate lifestyle to be better for them. As for the idea of homosexual being able to live heterosexual lifestyles, I do not believe it. It most likely is them hiding who they are in order to make others happy and fit in better.
My main beliefs on homosexuals is that their lifestyle is not hurting anyone. I see not proof that it is. I believe that basic idea of being true to one's self and not trying to force others to be who they are not. If you are gay then you are gay and if you are straight then you are straight. I know who I am and I must figure others know who they are. We are a free country and people should be allowed to live their lives as their feel they need ot as long as it does not affect other's rights.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2004 at 9:58 AM
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I think my ear drums imploded!
My oh my oh my! I see no reason to respond to all of that spewing vitriole of this GWBush fellow, except to say that I completely disagree. What I wrote with complete civility, he (or she) has responded in anger and invective. That's his choice; just hope he (or she) doesn't stroke out in the process!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2004 at 6:26 AM
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Homosexuality...
...is not a choice. The last I heard it may be caused by an immune reaction that occurs within a woman's womb when she has had too many children of a particular sex.
Bottom line: sexual dysphoria is real, transgenderism is real, these people are the least of our brethren (at least) so whatsoever you do to these individuals you also do unto your beloved Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior. Would Jesus actually increase the suffering of already suffering individuals? Why would he bother to give himself over to the Romans to be beaten, torn and executed if he didn't absolutely love every single human being present, and to be present, on the face of the Earth.
Prejudicial opinions of homosexuals anger me not because I am a homosexual or a bisexual. Not at all. Far from it. They bother me because they are ignorant and they are unscholarly. Most of all they are unjustified.
Feel free to spew your ilk amongst your fellow nutjobs who believe they can know what is beyond belief. All of this crapola about homosexuality began with a passage in Leviticus that also entreated the faithful to refrain from having sex with a menstruating female, to refrain from eating pork, and whole bunch of other stuff that made sense in the Dark Ages, but makes less sense today.
If you Christian idiots would simply arrange the books of the Old Testament back to the order in which the Jews had them during the time of Jesus, alot more would be perfectly clear to anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see.
God clearly discourages mindless, pious adherence to rituals for the sake of rituals. Once the lessons are learned, God would ask you to please move on. That's what He did for Job and that is actually the FINAL book of the Talmud. Moral of the story: God ain't big, God ain't small. God and all good things got no size at all.
Save your judgements, prejudgements and misjudgments for your own daily moral inventories. If human beings were any good at judging reality on their own we wouldn't be in the messes we are presently in. I would encourage any Christian to explore the possibility that the Final Judgment is the one every human being must make before they relinquish their judgments to their Creator, once and for all.
Give up playing God for God's sake. You aren't any good at it and you never will be. None of us are. Every time we start this horse manure somebody ends up dead. So quit trying. The Old Testament is FULL of attempts at understanding God this way and that, and NONE of them worked until Job discovered the reality of the situation. Then Jesus chimed in and really pissed everyone off because the rich scribes could no longer shame people into handing over money to support the latest church building fund.
Quit believing the false prophets and their millenia-old misinterpretations of a Book about Man's Earnest Pursuit of a God of His Understanding. The Bible is not the unerring word of God. The Bible was, is, and should be, the earnest and best attempt at cataloguing and tracking, for all time, all of the understandings we have ever held of God as we could barely understand Him. Quit playing politics with our most earnest research project and put your other oar in the water. You're annoying all of the other boaters trying to enjoy the lake for what it is.
posted by
Volaar
on November 5, 2004 at 8:23 PM
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We had an extended family member who died of AIDS. He was the gay partner of my mother's cousin.
posted by
TARZANA
on November 5, 2004 at 1:18 PM
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Response to Westwend
Good question, westwend, but the source of the studies are not suspect. Most of the stats are taken from government sources as well as the Journal of Child Psychiatry, Journal of Sex Research, CDC and JAMA. I am not into junk research.
Regarding the verse from Corinthians, I respect your view, and do agree that Paul was writing to the Corinthian church about specific conditions; however, I also believe that the Bible is timeless and principals apply to conditions today. So with that in mind, I also accept what the Old Testament (or Jewish Bible) has to say, and there's nothing positive about homosexuality there, either. Keep in mind that I was also referencing the entire verse, which speaks also to heterosexuals, and the sinful condition of humans in general. We all fall short by a long shot . . . and thank God for his grace!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 5, 2004 at 12:23 PM
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consider the source
regarding your studies.
who put them out.
would the source of these studies be suspect?
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 5, 2004 at 11:56 AM
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not learned and conditioned
genetic -- hormonal
studies of people whose sexual identity as birth is hard to determine by Doctors -- they have presence of hormones of both sexes.
I have seen certain physical genetic traits associated with homosexual men -- such as a color of hair, baldness, and other things that are genetic -- it's hard to describe, but many I have seen do have these traits.
science also tells us -- biology and genetics and others.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 5, 2004 at 11:55 AM
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P>aul was speaking to Corinthians
homosexual practices in Corinth of that time were entirely different from what we see today.
There was abuse then that there isn't today. Influential men forced young men into relationships.
There were huge parties held by the wealthy and influential. If you wanted to get ahead in society, you had to attend these parties, where if you wanted to be in the favor of the influiential elite, you had to submit to homosexual activities -- and these were also virtually the only source of meat in Corinthian society -- meat bought from the temples that had been sacrificed to idols.
There is in U.S. society nothing like that today as far as I know.
Paul condemned the homosexuality that he saw.
I would venture that he would not condemn homosexuality that is the same kind of relationship as heterosexuality.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 5, 2004 at 11:49 AM
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OK, Kooka, you give a valid complaint. Here's a comparative statistic: less than 3% of the American population is homosexual, but homosexuals commit approximately 30% of sex crimes against children (taken from the Journal of Sex Research). Even if one were to believe the Kinsey report which stated that 10% of the population is gay (a stat which has been shown even by homosexuals to be inaccurate), that would still be an impressively disproportionate statistic.
[I would love to know where you get the idea that homosexual do not show tolerance for other's opinions? They show as much if not more tolerance for others than most of everyone else.] Be thankful then, Kooka, that you have not been exposed to some of the intolerance of those who demand tolerance (and I apologize, I was not speaking solely of gays). It is not pleasant, and it is far more rampant than you would imagine. Heck, just look at the liberal Hollywood types. If you're not with them, you're practically vilified tarred and feathered for your opposing beliefs.
[All the homosexual I have known have not been big on sleeping around. I know a few who have been in very deep relationships. Now I know of many, many heterosexual people who have slept around like crazy, including several couples who have had open marriages.] So yes, you obviously did not read through the entire Bible verse I put at the beginning of my blog. I am in support of monogamy in marriage between a man and a woman. I do not condone heterosexual open marriages or sleeping around.
["Lesbians and gays are more prone to depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide." That is clearly due to the attitude towards them and the simple fact that they have no choice in their sexuality but feel they need to conform and force themselves to live a lie because it is what is considered the appropriate life style.] And yes, like I said, I believe that Christians have dropped the ball here, and most definitely need to do a better job of reaching out.
["It is also my belief that homosexuality is a learned and conditioned behavior." I have yet to see any logic to defend this idea at all. Go here to see the post I had already written on the subject
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/kooka_lives472/2004-10-19]. Trust me, there is plenty of logic here. There is plenty of research being done showing that homosexuals CAN change, and can be very fulfilled as heterosexuals. What is FACT is that the majority of homosexuals have a very similar background -- that of abusive relationships in their formative growing up years, dysfunctional relationships with their parents, sexual abuse by a respected older adult, etc. Often, homosexuality is a learned behavior at a young age, but something that the homosexual child had NO control over. That is why it is imperative that Christians and anyone, for that matter, show compassion and not ostracize teens who are showing a predilection for that lifestyle. See http://exodus.to/ for further info.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 5, 2004 at 11:34 AM
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Okay
I would love to know where you get the idea that homosexual do not show tolerance for other's opinions? They show as much if not more tolerance for others than most of everyone else.
"According to one study, 43% of gay men have had 500 sexual partners, and 28% have had 1000 or more." That sounds a little high to me. But at the same time how many straight women out there have slept around as much. Some of that is not even sex, but oral sex and such. Not being responsible for your sexual actions is the problem, not your sexual preference. And would it not make sense then to make laws that will help to promote the idea of homosexuals having one partner and sticking with that partner? All the homosexual I have known have not been big on sleeping around. I know a few who have been in very deep relationships. Now I know of many, many heterosexual people who have slept around like crazy, including several couples who have had open marriages.
"Lesbians and gays are more prone to depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide." That is clearly due to the attitude towards them and the simple fact that they have no choice in their sexuality but feel they need to conform and force themselves to live a lie because it is what is considered the appropriate life style.
"As many as 30,000 of sexually abused children (in one year) in the City of Los Angeles were victimized by homosexuals." And how many children as sexually abused by straight people? I know no one myself who has ever been sexual abused by a homosexual, but a lot of people I know have been abused sexually by a heterosexual in their life.
"It is also my belief that homosexuality is a learned and conditioned behavior." I have yet to see any logic to defend this idea at all.
Go here to see the post I had already written on the subject
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/kooka_lives472/2004-10-19
You main flaw in logic is that you are only looking at the statistics of the homosexuals and not comparing them tot the heterosexuals to see what the differences are.
You might as well just make a statement like '100% of those who are born die' without looking at any of the real statistics about life.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 5, 2004 at 10:44 AM
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