Comments on Does God WANT Man to Suffer?

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Yes, witty, I can see your perspective, there are so many you know, just

stick with the one that helps you along!!! (or does not)  however you'd like to phrase that!

posted by Kelli on October 10, 2004 at 8:52 AM | link to this | reply

Yes Kelly, I appreciate that argument, but it doesn't wash with me.  Remember what I said about comparing god to a parent?  What 'loving' parent would watch his children suffer, over and over again, for centuries?  Anyone who was "all good" wouldn't be capable of doing that.  It simply wouldn't be possible.  Only a sadist could do that and sadism isn't 'good', at least not by my standards.

posted by Witty_Woman on October 10, 2004 at 8:48 AM | link to this | reply

Witty, I once heard a catholic priest say

"God gives us the freedom to do and to be, and in that freedom we are vulnerable"

posted by Kelli on October 10, 2004 at 8:45 AM | link to this | reply

Wit -- The Answer To My Final Question Regarding God's Sadistic Nature.....

     ...can be nothing but a resounding YES! God certainly must create souls that He knows will never use their free will to worship Him.

     Generally speaking, Christians regard with revulsion any suggestion that God must have a sadistic streak in order to create disloyal souls doomed for eternity. They usually flee from the question of God's sadisitc intentions because they have no real, rational answer to the question: Why does God knowingly create doomed souls in fulfillment of His plan?

     My answer?

     Clearly, there can be no God as defined by Christianity. Christ, as the incarnation of God in the form of man must have been born with the same flaws that humanity labors under...including the capacity for getting things wrong. It's very possible that Christ got some things wrong. Man, after all, is utterly imperfect. The notion of God exising as man requires that Christ got some things wrong; otherwise, He'd pose as little more than God dressed up in a man suit.  On top of Christ's misinterpretations, the Holy Bible has always been written by imperfect men. God did not write the Bible...He only inspired it. I'm certain that man (in his imperfection) fumbled the ball on a few occasions when tranfering the word of God to papyrus... possibly including the occasion where God claims to be all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful. There can be no other explanation for such impossible proclamations! Christianity fears to tread on such treacherous turf. So it offers no explanation--just the repeated threats of eternal death for blaspheming and mocking God.

                                                                                                                 D-Mann 

posted by Dennison..Mann on October 9, 2004 at 2:48 PM | link to this | reply

Dennison

If the answer to your last question is yes, then it is impossible for god to be all-good, otherwise he would be incapable of even thinking like that, let alone acting like it.  An all-good person cannot possibly have any concept of evil.

posted by Witty_Woman on October 9, 2004 at 1:50 PM | link to this | reply

Wit -- You're Confusing Your Awareness Of God's Universe With Suffering....

     Simply because so many souls perish from this world on a daily basis does not mean that they are not alive with God in heaven.

     Questioning God's motives can lead to insanity. Since most folks can barely think beyond their own linear experience of birth-life-death, humanity lacks the ability to fully recognize the benefits of an evil soul like Hitler. God's plan for the Holocaust might very well provide benefits to humanity that we might not recognize for centuries...and certainly will never recognize in our own short lifespan. Essentially, it's quite possible that humanity grows most--in a spiritual sense-- through extreme episodes of its own inhumanity.

     Calvin posed the larger question: Does God create evil souls that He knows will never worship Him just to sadistically watch them suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire? Christians will persistently refer you to the idea of free will, but free will really has nothing to do with God's premeditated creation of souls destined to suffer forever after His judgment.

     Why does God create disobedient souls that He knows He will ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity? He knows that they will never make the right choice with their free will but He creates such doomed souls nonetheless. Since God knows all that will be, He cannot possibly 'hope' that these souls will use their free will to obey Him. He knows that they will not. Does this mean that God truly creates such condemned, stubborn souls for His own sadistic entertainment?

                                                                                                                  Respectfully,

                                                                                                                  Dennison Mann 

                                

posted by Dennison..Mann on October 9, 2004 at 1:20 PM | link to this | reply

witty

Exactly!   Like I have said many times before: what kind of God does these things to his children. A fucked up one, that's who! Not my particular God, that's for sure!

posted by David1Spirit on October 9, 2004 at 12:49 PM | link to this | reply