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sannhett
you make it sound masochistic.
posted by
Friar__Tuck
on September 22, 2004 at 5:29 AM
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in a post i said
when Yeshua refers to himself (as in 'no comes to the Father except through me') we should replace that with a human being -- the next person we meet.
"No one can come to God except through others."
God is in the people.
we must be willing to give of ourselves -- give, not take -- most people, and a very many Christians that I have known, are inthe spirit of taking -- of "getting for themselves" not of the spirit of giving -- of doing.
the beauty is that we never really totally fulfill the true spirit of giving of ourselves.
beautiful
but we're ok
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 21, 2004 at 4:17 PM
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Elle01
Well put! And thanks for reading!
posted by
sannhet
on September 21, 2004 at 3:23 PM
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right on
right on, sannhet. the ego thinks it is god but it is not. the ego must die to come into service to the divinity within/throughout. Yeshua saw that he had to destroy the last stronghold of the ego - the body itself.
Crucifixion/dismemberment is a universal myth - you can find it in all mythologies. neamer's (mis)understanding is what Joseph Campbell would call a poor interpretation, or misunderstanding, of the metaphor.
"Noone comes to the father except thru me" is a time-place-cultural attempt to describe a paradox, today I would say "noone comes to divinity except thru what-Jesus-represented-as-sacrifice"; to get to divinity, you give it up, all of it, even hope (my god my god, why have you forsaken me).
posted by
elle01
on September 21, 2004 at 1:52 PM
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Neamer -
Here is my point, and Westwend picked it up. We must lose all of our "self" in order to become divine. The divinity inside us (the Holy Spirit, divine intelligenc, call it what you will) is not accessible to us until we "kill" our "self". Once that is done, we can begin down the path of reaching Christ Consciousness. Basic Christian doctrine, as I was taught anyway, , is that Christ died for our sins. I am saying maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe Jesus/Yeshua died to show us what we must to do become one with God - to become divine - not to rid of us sin. I'm not so sure this is basic Christian doctrine.
posted by
sannhet
on September 21, 2004 at 1:16 PM
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Moot point
Dying for our sins and dying as an example of the spiritual path we must take to God are one and the same.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 10:39)
31I die every day--I mean that, brothers--just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. (1 Cor. 15:31)
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[1] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[2] must be born again.' ( John 3:6)
This is basic Christian doctrine. Therefore, I don't understand your point. Thanks for sharing.
posted by
neamer
on September 21, 2004 at 7:16 AM
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good
be willing to give the self up.
let's see -- he who loves himself more than me -- I think that's what is said -- cannot enter into the Spiritual Realms -- my rendering of "kingdom of heaven".
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 21, 2004 at 6:25 AM
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